The Swamps Of Amazon And Brand Adventures

Amazon continues to take over ecommerce but not always at the expected rate people estimate. The changing landscape on Amazon, and retail in general, is causing brands to think more about their brand presence and what shelves, digital or traditional, on which they need to be. Join Elizabeth Greene of Junglr as we navigate through ads on Amazon, how that impacts a brand, and how brands are reacting to today's landscape.

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Michael Maher  00:00

All right, everybody. Welcome to The Longer Game podcast where we talk about retail. I believe one of the taglines is retail reimagined. And we talked about the future of retail. So we know what retail looks like, now it's changing. Ecommerce is becoming a larger part of it. And we like to talk with a variety of guests. And today we have on our podcast, I almost said Elizabeth Junglr, which would be correct, but it would have been close. But Elizabeth Greene, the cofounder of Junglr, which is an advertising agency, I'm going to leave it at that. And I'll let Elizabeth give you a little bit more in-depth about herself or her company and what she does. Thanks for joining us, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth Greene  00:40

Yeah. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. And we ended up with some technical difficulties this time around, too, but gonna power through.

Michael Maher  00:48

We made it work. We got it. We got it figured out. Yeah.

Elizabeth Greene  00:52

Awesome. Yeah. So hi, my name is Elizabeth Greene. I'm one of the co-founders of an Amazon advertising agency. So we're sticking to our lane at this point, just in the Amazon realm of things. But definitely, you know, digging into all things, products and advertising, because I recognize although our lever we pull is Amazon, there's so much outside of that, that we definitely need to keep an eye on.

Michael Maher  01:25

So talking about staying in your lane. I couldn't agree with that, more my agency Cartology, which is really customized full skill management, the entire channel, you and I've even referred some people back and forth to each other, which is cool that we're able to leverage each other and say, Hey, this, I don't think this person needs my help, or I think this person more needs your help. But you know, I noticed when I set goals for 2021 I think I went a little too broad. And I wanted to connect across all these channels. And we're not, you know, we're not a huge organization like Havas media or Wunderman Thompson or whatever the all the other big media companies are. And so this year, when I looked at goals, I said, Hey, how can we actually get deeper into Amazon and provide more services around Amazon. And I think that's what is helping us to be successful so far this year, just kind of doubling down on what we know. And we know that Amazon is a growing percent of retail in general, but also ecommerce I think it's now 39.7%. When I go back and have ecommerce, retail, I think ended the year at about 16. And the biggest jump we saw in 2020. Actually, it ended the year at 16% in 2020. I don't know what it ended in 2021. But we saw that ecommerce grew. Amazon was a big part of that when I go back and look at predictions of how much of ecommerce Amazon will take over. A lot of people at this time we're predicting 50%. So it hasn't quite risen to the level that people thought it continues to grow. Why do you think that is? What do you think it's it's not hitting those? You know, it's not going from 35 to 50%? Over five years?

Elizabeth Greene  03:33

You mean Amazon itself taking over the space?

Michael Maher  03:38

Yeah, taking every piece of ecommerce, it's growing. But when I look back at projections, people are saying, oh, yeah, by 2022 it's gonna be 30%. And it's not quite there yet.

Elizabeth Greene  03:49

Yeah. I think some other things that are hindering it, just the logistics is hard. So there's lots of sellers that just can't get stocking. And that's definitely a thing. You know, if seller can't get stock in, there's no stock on Amazon. I think shoppers are being conditioned more and more to go outside of Amazon and BOK. There's plenty of just little people who I wouldn't say little people, but smaller, more personal brands that have popped up, which is pretty interesting. And then I think another thing is that there's some very large brands, and then small brands in general that recognize it's been much harder to grow themselves as a brand, which is really where you get that long term leverage. Traditionally, it was next to impossible. I think Amazon definitely recognizes that so you notice them making steps to correct that and you know, a way that's possible that but still feels very native and very Amazon because of course they're not interested in diluting what they've built, but they're trying to be as accommodating as possible. But I think the platform itself only lends the ability to go so far with that. And so I think there's a lot of other brands that are kind of trying to build themselves off the platform. And that may also have factors.

Michael Maher  05:24

I think that's smart. Because Amazon, if I've seen managing Amazon accounts, and having sold myself that you know, your account can get suspended at any time, for whatever reason, products can become suppressed. And you can get out of those things you can get products, relisted, you can get your account reinstated. But it can take some time, and it can be very finicky. And so if your only revenue stream is volatile like that, it can cause some problems. And I believe that is, one of the reasons why we saw a lot of growth in ecommerce is because many brands were relying upon brick and mortar sales only. And they were thinking, You know what, we'll get to ecommerce, we'll get to Shopify, sir, we'll get to Amazon. And then when the pandemic hit, what happened? You know, you had your designated person going to the store people stocked up and then they stayed at home, and then they purchase stuff on ecommerce. So Omni Channel is really, this is a secret, but the retail reimagined for us on The Longer Game. It's really about how Omni channels the future of ecommerce. And so I think it's smart to have your own channel, first of all, it's not necessarily because you own the consumer, people always talk about, we want to own the customer. You can't own the customer on Amazon, you know? Yeah. Is it technically Amazon's customer? For sure. Can your brand have leveraged with those customers on Amazon? Absolutely. Can you get retention for them? Absolutely. One of the reasons I say that is because almost everybody, like 300 million people have social media accounts. So even if there's, you know, 360 or however many million people there are in the US, maybe 330, somewhere in between there. So, you know, some of the grandmas and grandpas don't have social media accounts, but where the real buying power is. Most of these people have social media. So what are they going to do they like your product, they're going to go look you up on Instagram, they're going to look you up on Facebook, they're going to maybe check you out on Tik Tok now too. Some curious how long will be a will be a thing, but maybe someone will end up acquiring them just like Snapchat, that would get really big for a while they kind of dropped off. And they got bigger but Tik Tok what I've read it, what's different about them from a social perspective is you don't have to watch ads, you can just keep scrolling and keep going. You don't have to force to, to watch any ad content before you. You know, you move on to the next thing anyway, I think omni channel is important people are gonna check out in social media and then you can leverage your site to get elsewhere. You're dealing specifically with Amazon advertising. And one of the things I've noticed just over the past year, is you talked about levers. And there are some times where you can pull as many levers and push as many buttons as you want. But if the product is crap, or the product detail page, the actual listing on Amazon is crap. You are only going to get so far. So how do you determine who you take on knowing that you have you really good at pulling certain levers but knowing that those levers can be limited sometimes?

Elizabeth Greene  08:42

Yeah, definitely. I think that goes back to us. Definitely focusing on partnering with people who are interested in building a brand. Those are my favorite partners, the people who know their products, I'm actually getting ready to do another onboarding call with someone I'm super excited to work with because he knows his products. He knows what he's doing. He knows where he's going. And he has a game plan. And those are the people that I'm like, Yes, we can partner with you to bring that ad piece. But recognizing that we are just the ad piece. So we want people who can you know, definitely bring all of the other aspects that honestly the scariest ones to work with? Are the brands that you know, we put this up five years ago, we haven't optimized their listings or done anything, why are we not seeing the same returns? Why are you not continuously seeing your growth? And it's like, Well, okay, so *inaudible*, like, even if your conversion rates stayed the same, even if all other things stayed equalized, which they don't, your ad costs are rising and then that is going to factor in to your now decrease performance metrics. And so, so again, what we bring is the ad piece we bring the ad knowledge but we definitely need to partner with someone who's interested in, you know, bringing all the other pieces to that.

Michael Maher  10:10

I see three types of sellers on Amazon. What do you, what do you think? What's your? What's your take on that? What are the different, if you had to, you know, put sellers on Amazon into certain categories like brands or their own category? Brands who have legit stories, they're not molding their products to the marketplace, you're doing quite the opposite. You're saying how do we make this work on the marketplace? What other kinds of sellers do you see out there?

Elizabeth Greene  10:39

Yeah, that's probably there's probably brands, and then there’s the old school private labels, which I, I would, most brands actually call themselves private label. But I think they're more into, like you said, building like an actual presence on Amazon. Versus like the old school, I guess you would call it white labeling or than private label, where they just kind of slap their logo on something, use factory images, and then just like, call it good. The thing is, with the competition getting more and more fierce, and there being less and less places where you can really come in and absolutely differentiate yourself from the market. There, those people are just getting squeezed out. They're either learning to pivot and you know, go the way of branding and like, really dig into like who they are and adjust to the market. Or they're saying Amazon doesn't work, I'm out. I'm gonna go find something else.

Michael Maher  11:38

Yeah, I love that one. Because Amazon definitely does work $263 billion in the US market in 2020. And I think it was I just looked at recently, because our, Cartology's website, my agency's website, we have facts on there about Amazon and about current stuff. And so we had to update stuff, because it's, it's a new year. And 2021, I think was about 310 billion. So Amazon works. But you have to, you have to know what you're doing so so I always find that funny when someone just throws up their hands. Nope, you know, this doesn't work. It's like, it's not quite like saying this, but it's like, you try to you know, jump up and dunk. I don't know why I'm using a sports analogy, because I don't really know anything about sports, but you try to dunk and you're like, well, gravity doesn't work, it didn't help me get up there at all. It's like, oh, that's not really how it works. Let's talk more about gravity, let's get you back into seventh and eighth grade science and teach about what Isaac Newton discovered, and maybe how that's really actually applicable to life, and maybe you're just not a good jumper. So maybe you weigh 500 pounds and trying to dunk balls and it makes sense. But I think there's there's always a there's something missing, if you just say, Oh, this doesn't work. Maybe you're not approaching it right for your brand. Maybe you're if your goal is to get on Amazon, and become a seven figure big business right away. You're gonna fail. And I mean, like, probably 95% of the time. Because in order to get and, I always think about this, too, I think you and I, you know, you and I are friends. And I would consider us friends. Maybe you don't consider me a friend. I don't know. 

Elizabeth Greene  13:29

I hope so. 

Michael Maher  13:30

But we, you know, we talk outside of this. And we have other agency friends, other service provider friends that we talk about, have groups that we communicate in. And, you know, we talk about the numbers game of hitting this certain number, from an advertising perspective hitting, you know, there's that metric for anyone who's not familiar with Amazon, you likely know row as return on adspend. So it's usually, you know, if you're every time you spend $1, you get two back, you're getting a two to one row as so the opposite of that metric. There's one on Amazon called a costs. And that is advertising cost of sale. And that is basically the inverse. So if you're getting a two to one return on ads, you are you have a 50% a cost. And so a lot of people look at a cost and they say, oh, we need to get it down at this level. We need to, you know, have it be at a certain level. And my question is always just what why? Why do you need it to be that way. But if you were looking, when we look at numbers, sometimes it's like, Well, why do you want to hit a million dollars? It's just a mental breakthrough number. If you're aware of that, and you're like, that's what you're going after. Okay, well cool. But if you're like, Oh, well, we needed some figures so we can grow and it's like, well, what if you hit six figures this year, but you're really profitable would that be? Would that be different? So there's always this, this numbers chasing game of even service providers saying, you know, I only work with seven or eight figure brands, why? Are they more successful? Are their stories better? Like, what is that? And what's your take on the whole number? 

Elizabeth Greene  15:17

Yeah, I definitely think so, I think numbers inform you, but I think there's this, like opposing forces in a lot of ways, on what someone wants to do and what the market will allow. And so you kind of have to the markets gonna want to suck everything out. I mean, Amazon is definitely growing their ad platform, it's getting much more competitive. So if you go in there, like, I just need to rank I need to get this, you're going to, you're going to spend a lot for that. So you, you really have to, you know, you're always trying to push it towards profitability, or some sort of upside be that ranking or profits. There again, I'm a firm believer, and there always is some upside, we don't run ads just to like we run ads, we've got everything built out. Isn't this amazing? And you're like, Well, I'm losing money hand over fist. So no, it's not amazing. Like we knew we need to bring that back, I actually have some internal training I've been building out. And one of the things is like, telling everyone on my team, like, we're not actually running ads just to like run ads, we're running ads, because there's a distinct purpose and reason in mind, we need to always keep that at the forefront, again, be a profitability, be it essential ranking, increased sales. The one thing that is very unique about the Amazon platform, is there still is some sort of ranking influence generated through a paid ad. Used to be that way on Google, they definitely took right *inaudible*

Michael Maher  16:49

Took it down a little bit more for people. 

Elizabeth Greene  16:51

Yes. So it's possible, when you get a purchase of your product through an ad to have that purchase, kind of accumulates in like your convert, your conversions or order history on that individual search page. So it kind of like adds to the pot in a way. So if you can, you know, I wouldn't say artificially increased because these are still legit purchases. It's not like you're putting them up there. And like, somehow magically, they're selling like actual people are buying the products. Amazon takes that into account, and kind of says, okay, cumulatively ads, as well as just, you know, where you're organically showing up, or when you naturally show up on that page, and then people who purchase through that avenue. All together, we see, you know, this is kind of your sales velocity, or how many you're selling versus your competitors. And so if you can, you can artificially some, again, it's not technically artificial, but you can pay to influence that through the ads. You know, it used to be Google, like you could just pay for AdWords.

Michael Maher  17:58

That's exactly what it is. So it's all about, I feel like sales history, sales velocity. So when you're advertising on Amazon, it's a native platform. So you're advertising the listing, that would show up organically in search. And so it doesn't really matter if you get a sale on the paid or the organic listing. Either way, when Amazon sees a keyword and a listing, get purchased with that keyword, there's something called attribution that happens. And Amazon says, Oh, wow, you know, cooling neck towel, this product, I don't know, if you remember it, like, six years ago, those were super hot cooling neck towels. And a lot of people were selling them on Amazon, too. And if you someone purchases your product on cooling neck towel, and it's on the ad listing, that's still the exact same listing as the organic one. So you're going to get that attribution, it's going to help increase your rank, to your point, and it's going to help boost your visibility overall.

Elizabeth Greene  19:04

Yeah, it is the thing, like I said, kind of the opposing forces is for you to show up on a particular spot, on a particular search page is going to cost you X amount of dollars, that's actually determined by the market. That's not what you're willing to pay. That's what now people will say, alright, so I need to reduce my costs. So I'm going to lower my bids, you're still going to show up lower, like, you'll still show up, you still possibly could get some sales. But that doesn't mean there's no like, I've talked to so many people recently, like how do you build out a ranking campaign? Like it's not rocket science, as much as I want you to think that like, I have the best campaign strategy and like use my super secret formula and like, you know, the world's your oyster, it's no, it's you need to bid high enough to gain that visibility, probably in a more targeted build, so that I mean, there's ways to do it better. But there's no like secret sauce. To me, the trick is not necessarily *inaudible*

Michael Maher  20:05

Oh, I say that all the time. I say that all the time, there's no secret sauce. And people don't like hearing that. And I would say, maybe even service providers who are trying to get people to believe they have secret sauce like it less than the, you know, the prospects out there, the potential clients who hear that I think they're a little bit more okay with hearing that, because then that makes them feel like, okay, well, now I'm getting the reality, because a lot of people want you to feel like what they're doing is super, super special. And bottom line, even if you tell someone, Elizabeth, even if you went to someone and said, Here's exactly how you do everything I do, that doesn't mean that they're going to want to do it, that doesn't mean that they're going to be good at doing it, that doesn't mean that they're going to retain the information. And so they're still going to want you likely to run their ads for them, they're just going to maybe understand it more, there's always going to be people that want other people to do things for them. I'm not good at it at accounting. And so I have someone else I mean, I've learned because I'm a business owner, and I had it figured out. But I have someone that does my books, and I have an accountant, I have those people that do that, because I don't want to handle that I want to do what's best in my business. And that's, you know, building relationships with people, building out strategies enables and all that kind of stuff. So I think the one thing that people are afraid to say that you and I have talked about, you know, off of this podcast, is that ads are very experimental.

Elizabeth Greene  21:41

Hmm. Yeah, I think the trick for me, like if someone comes to me and says, like, we need to rank this product, here, I'm actually gonna have a couple questions. One, what's your risk tolerance? How much money do you have just to like, flush? If this doesn't work? How long? Are you fine with sustaining that? And how aggressive do we need to be out of the gate, if you've got a low budget, if you have a very low risk tolerance, I'm going to say we can't go off your top keywords, it will not work, you will not be happy, it's going to take a lot longer than you think it's probably going to take double than you think. And you just can't sustain that. And you have to be okay with that. But, you know, that goes back to actually understanding how it works, understanding that it's a testing, so I think what we bring to the table in ranking is not necessarily how you can build it, because I can tell you how to build it, it's being able to understand the market. And just because we're in it all the time, we can pace a little bit more strategic bets, and help kind of marry what you're comfortable with, with what we see the market requires. And then try and find that sweet spot, you know, to kind of push into the market. And ideally, you know, and then we know how to make adjustments or timeframes to work on correcting it.

Michael Maher  23:09

Yeah, and like you said, we're in it all the time. So we're able to make, I think I'm watching someone make a Whole Foods delivery to my front door. That's why I looked away for a second. When I, when I think about, you know being in and all the time, you were able to make more, I would say educated guesses. And part of the reason is, as a service provider, you're working across multiple accounts. That's one of the benefits you have, as opposed to building something internally as a brand. You don't have access to other brands, data. And everything still remains, you know, still remains private. But we can see, okay, across the board, we're seeing cost per click go up. So we know that that's likely, Hey, we want to warn you ahead of time. That's something you could deal with. It's the same with like, Hey, I'm noticing that I can't access the account Seller Central is down, is anybody else on the team having that problem? And then three people on my team will say yeah, I'm having a problem too. And then an hour later Amazon says, Hey, we're having problems with campaign manager or the ads dashboard. We know about it, and we're working on it. So it's that multiple people multiple, this is a way a time where multiple cooks in the kitchen, maybe in different spots in the kitchen, you got your sous chef, you get your pastry chef, you get your head chef, head chef kind of person. 

Elizabeth Greene  24:34

One other thing to point out is actually So Amazon is giving us more access to data that we didn't have before. And that kind of goes back to more cooks in the kitchen, more people scrubbing all over trying to figure out and new buttons, new things. But there is a brand and I'm gonna completely forget what exactly the word is but if you go into the Campaign Manager left hand side, scroll over the little icon is gonna say brand, I think brand metrics. Um, you actually can now see your conversion rate versus the conversion rate of the average in a specific category. And that will be aggregated by brands. If you have more than one brands, you can check it by brand, if you are advertising, so you're not going to get it on a per product level, you will get it on a brand and a category level. So that can be very beneficial. 

Michael Maher  25:28

Now, that's huge. That was not there before.

Elizabeth Greene  25:31

Yeah, yeah. Because so many people would say, Well, how am I doing versus my competitors? I'm like, well, we don't take on competing clients. So I don't know. But you know, our observations are typically conversion rates x. Now we can go in there and say, Hey, look at this subcategory that we're, you know, you're really aggressive in us versus your competitors, you're lower than the average. And what we've seen is if you're lower than the average, you have a much harder time getting ranking visibility, you know, increase sales for your products, if you can get above that average, then we've seen a definite lift.

Michael Maher  26:11

And now on the campaign manager, so for everyone who's not super familiar with Amazon, there's a, you know, that internal advertising platform, everything's done inside what's called campaign manager, or really now, just the Amazon advertising platform. It's funny when people refer to it as older as older names, because it's been changed for a while, but you know, Amazon now is giving you information like, you know, percent of impression share, or percent of you know, top of the page impression share new to brand orders, all these different numbers that Amazon's had, they've had all this information in this data, they just been, I think strategic about what they release, and what they give people because they want don't want to over like the amount of data that Amazon has, if they were to release it all right now would take us years to, to figure out how to implement that in our even the biggest of companies, it would take a lot of time to figure out how to implement that and utilize that, because there's just so much that's out there. So looking at the ad console, three years ago, compared to now is drastically different. You know, looking at it, looking at it six months ago, yeah, there's definitely some changes and some difference, especially esthetic stuff. But you know, it's, it's changed dramatically. And so now we've got more opportunities to say, hey, we think this is a good decision to go this way. Let's try it. And then look back, you know, over the last three days and say, Well, what was number like you said, let's start with, you know, intent in mind, or I think it was Stephen Covey's Seven Habits of the highly effectual people I mentioned that title. One of them is one of the habits. Yeah, it starts with the end in mind. I just saw someone mentioned it. So what is your goal? Is it to get more visibility, because if that's the case, we're not necessarily going to be judging conversions, if it's to get more sales than conversions is going to be a part of it. And then if we're looking at profitability, it's not just going to be conversions, but it's going to be your row as so what your goal is, will determine what metrics you look at.

Elizabeth Greene  28:30

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I 100% agree. I think what we're seeing now is Amazon and then also the really savvy sellers now, viewing the Amazon ad platform more in a traditional marketing sense, where so the thing that's very unique about Amazon advertising, is the fact that you can absolutely identify what converted and what were as before you know, you would Pixel THINGs, or you would try and aggregate it, but it was very difficult to correlate a conversion to a marketing. So at that point is just viewed as marketing or branding, where a lot of old school Amazon sellers are very much conditioned to say like, a cost is everything, like what is my conversion on this, I have to be absolutely profitable or makes no sense. Or if you're coming from a traditional marketing background, that's not always the case. And so I think as the platform matures, you're going to see many more people talk about you know, Amazon, marking less like Amazon pay per click and like really hone in on like the old school, acos focus.

Michael Maher  29:42

People are gonna, are gonna start to go back to that you mean as opposed to just looking at it as traditional marketing like media buying where you're just throwing out a bunch of money and hoping for exposure.

Elizabeth Greene  29:52

So I think you definitely were going to be more savvy with our media buying. I think that makes sense. Um, but um, as you know, bigger and bigger brands get onto the platform and they're looking to how do I gain market share there realize that there's a lot of upfront costs involved, which don't necessarily always translate day one. But out of like, out of the long term, you know, you definitely can see that lift and get new brand metrics. There's ways for us to kind of get actual data feedback on how that's working. But so I think a lot of people who are so hyper focused on a cost will probably end up getting lost in the fray.

Michael Maher  30:35

Okay, yeah, I think that's smart. And I think the, one of the biggest questions I always have is why, and I think this annoyed teachers, when I would ask them this as a kid, we're gonna do this today. Why are we doing this? Well, what because we need to learn about our state. Why do we need to learn about our state? Well, I don't know this, the Board of Education requires us to learn about our state in fourth grade, but why do they do that? It's like, Shut up already. I'm just trying to teach these kids. Why do you keep saying why? And then I get the best and most interesting answers from people. And this helps me to better determine who I even want to work with, is when I asked when I question like, why your answer is very telling. So if you say, Hey, I right now, I've attended one row as an ads, and I want to grow and grow aggressively. And I say, Well, why do you have a 10 to one row as well, because you know, we're very efficient. We don't have our startup and we don't have the money to you know, so to get lots of return. I'm like, okay, great. But one of your new goals now is you want to grow aggressively. So I said, What if I told you, we could grow you significantly, but, your eyes would drop to a five to one, which in my mind is still pretty incredible. And this is an actual call I had with a prospect and they said Not interested? I said, Okay, well, you know, then basically what you're looking for is impossible. Because you're wanting your role as to not change, even though you're looking for greater exposure, let's meet, which means you're gonna have to have a higher risk tolerance, like you mentioned. Because as you get exposed to more people, not everyone's gonna be your ideal customer. And there's a piece of education for us as service providers, when we go and talk to our clients or prospects that say, this is how Amazon works, we have to educate them. So that not because we're so smart, and incredible, but because we work with a platform, and we want them to know, here's how Amazon works. And here's the kind of decisions we're going to make and here's why we're going to make them. But same from a, from a consumer perspective, you it might take time for you to educate someone on why your product is more important. Why it has unique characteristics, as opposed to just point A parody at work, even doing deeper creative audits on our clients and saying, you know, what are your points of differentiation? What are your points of parity in the marketplace? Because if everyone in the marketplace is doing this thing, like having cool styles and colors, and that's your point of difference it's really point of parity and that's not something that's going to help you Yeah, I think point of parity would be a great band name to if you play guitar or anything.

Elizabeth Greene  33:27

I don't, my siblings all *inaudible* they're musical.

Michael Maher  33:33

Oh, really? Oh, okay. Well, you can teach drums, anybody can learn have drums.

Elizabeth Greene  33:40

My brother is already the drummer. He's amazing. Absolutely amazing. He kills it.

Michael Maher  33:45

Oh, okay. Does he play places regularly like is that what he professionally you know, maybe just like?

Elizabeth Greene  33:57

No, but he's good.

Michael Maher  34:01

There's a lot of great musicians who you know have other jobs but play like I play at church sometimes or I'll write and record music and stuff like that but I don't get paid for it. So you heard it here first if you want. You want to drummer Elizabeth's brother and myself, will be happy to play for cash. Elizabeth, if people want to locate you or find you. Where should they be looking? Should they be looking in the Amazon jungle should they be looking at the in the the swamps of Florida where are they going to find you?

Elizabeth Greene  34:40

Yes, yes, I'm relocating to the swamps. I'm gonna be a swamp person.

Michael Maher  34:44

If they want to connect with you. 

Elizabeth Greene  34:45

If you want to just snoop on what I'm doing what I'm thinking about Amazon advertising, definitely go follow me on LinkedIn was where I'm the most active drop the most tips. If you want if you're interested in working with us, so the best place is going to be the website, which is https://www.junglr.com/ form at the bottom, I'm still doing the intake, so you'll get to talk to me, and we'll see if we can help.

Michael Maher  35:20

And is Elizabeth Greene, everyone. Greene. So there's an E on the end. I love that you're doing intake, I still do. I'm the salesperson for my team. So we get to say, you know, like, basically you get to talk with the Chief ID officer, you get to talk with the head person. And I think that provides a little a level of credibility that people like, that's fine, you get to you know, people get to pick your brain a little bit, and you get to find out, hey, here's what's going to be going down the pipeline in my company. So Elizabeth, if you had one piece of advice, and this is never fun, because then you have to decide between things, but it puts a little pressure on you. If you pick one thing that you would tell people about advertising on Amazon, someone who's already advertising, who's wanting to hit a certain goal. And there, they're wanting to be successful, which is going to be determined different by every person. What's one piece of advice you would give them?

Elizabeth Greene  36:26

Um, I would say know your numbers. That's gonna be the biggest one. I'm really understanding, know, your numbers, caveat. Not all keywords and targets are created equal, and be okay with that. I think the biggest issue I have now with like, the AI and automation is that they treat everything equal. And I don't think that's how you get the best results.

Michael Maher  36:58

Yep. And honestly, the quote unquote, AI that's out there, it's only for and we're talking about, you know, advertising software's technology. It's only so advanced, it's not you know, Isaac Asimov's I robot like someone is not going to come after you and or Ex Machina or whatever were that I don't know if you ever saw that movie but there's a female robot who let's just say she becomes, I think the word is sent, she becomes aware. And so yeah, that's not what bit automation is happening right now on Amazon platforms but so advice is know your metrics, caveat. Not all keywords are created the same. Thanks for coming on. Elizabeth. We appreciate your wisdom and your brevity, when it comes to or levity, I should say when it comes to ads and the whole game.

Elizabeth Greene  37:55

Yeah, definitely. I appreciate it. It's been fun.

Michael Maher  37:57

So guys, if you want to, if you want to find Elizabeth again, go to LinkedIn. It's Greene with an E to N and junglr.com is the website, fill out that form and you can talk directly with Elizabeth. This has been The Longer Game where we talk about retail, reimagine, we talk about The Longer Game. We talked about the longest game. And we talked about, you know playing in return what it's going to look like in the future and I think Amazon stuff we're going to have a big part of it. Stay tuned for what that percentage actually turns out to be. But thanks for joining us. We'll talk to you later.