You Can't Ignore The Pop

Pop up shops have been relegated to the corner of the retail room for quite some time but that's how retail started in the first place people. Open air markets, bazaars, sugar dates, figs, and pistachios? Stephen Brooks schools us on how Pop Up shops are taking back their rightful place at the front of the retail room.

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Michael Maher  00:00

Welcome everybody to The Longer Game. My name is Michael Maher, I am your host. And The Longer Game is where we talk about retail. We talk about retail, reimagine. We talk about the future of retail, sometimes we talk about the past of retail. And today I have with me Stephen Brooks. He is the Founder and CEO of the Pop Up Retail Expert. And it's not a new concept by any means. But it's something that I think has become maybe even more utilized now, since COVID. And there's been a lot of uncertainty that's going on, but I'll let Steve talk a little bit more about himself his experience, and I would say definitely a unique title. There's probably not many people that would say, they're the Pop Up Retail Expert. So it's kind of cool that you've got a little niche carved out for yourself. But welcome, Steve.

Stephen Brooks  00:25

Thank you, pleasure to be here. And you're right, you know, Pop Up Retailing has actually been around since the beginning of civilization. Right. You know, we used to call the markets and suits. Right. And we were trading products long before we were selling products for hard currency

Michael Maher  00:33

Was probably before actually where they were located. Yeah, yeah,

Stephen Brooks  01:08

Absolutely. All foundation of retail is, is in pop up, which is which people tend to forget, but and for a long time you know, pop up retailing, as I think has been seen as kind of like the adolescent in the room of retail. Take the space, pay us the money, go and stand in the corner don't make a lot of noise. And then when you're done make sure you tidy things up and leave. And what's happened since COVID. And to be fair, just you know, before COVID as well you know, the industry became the adult in the room because there are a lot of brands launching using a pop up method. There's a lot of innovation around pop up which we'll talk about as we go through this conversation. So it's a very exciting space within retail.

Michael Maher  01:52

So the person that the guests that will be on the podcast right before you his name is Ron Thurston and he is involved in retail in general but we were just having a conversation about how there's a fashion brand that in New York City they had a pop up space and they, I think originally were selling online. Oh no, they went to, they launched a fashion show and then they had for like you know a couple months a retail space and then they went to selling online and they're kind of continuing to change and move things around. But it's like acquiring an audience in a different way and then maybe you know moving them to a different vehicle like if once they know the brand and more comfortable with it especially a fashion brand. They know what size they are in a product since you know you could especially in women's fashion you know my wife has like a small and an XL in you know total two totally different brands and it doesn't quite make sense. So something like that it makes a lot of sense to acquire and then you know move to stuff online. So are you seeing a lot of combination retail to

Stephen Brooks  02:51

Yeah, and Ron, I know really well we've worked on some projects together his book Retail Pride is a must read if you're in retail, even if you're not in retail. I think it's a must read so that you understand our industry and we're both incredibly passionate about that. You're right, I mean the fashion area I think is has been one of the niches that seen the explosion from online to inline. And certainly I've worked with some brands that have you know, built up a reasonable following have been doing some good numbers in terms of you know, product sales but wanted to get out and really connect with the consumer in a physical way. So 78% of people still want to touch feel and engage with a product before they buy it. So you don't need to feel your store with every line every SKU that you've got, you know on your books, you bring in your top sellers and then you integrate technology in a way that benefits the consumer so having you know tablets or laptops available so they can order the you know the color and the size that you don't keep in store and you have it drop shipped to the store the next day. So they come back so that there is a lot of that the other thing I think around fashion is that there is kind of this micro celebrity status around fashion brands as well, particularly if you're in design. So being able to get out and you know, go to your database and say listen, we're going to be in x y and Zed mall for this period of time. People do come and make a point of coming in to meet the Creator. And I've seen that be very successful on a number of occasions.

Michael Maher  04:58

On e-commerce brands utilize limited availability, limited stock, whether that's true or not, they use that limited time to help, you know, create a sense of urgency. But in this case, you know, if there's a fashion designer that's gonna only be there in residence, you know, for three months, like you've got that period of time, it is a legitimate, you know, limited time offer. So if you want to meet the brand, especially before they, you know, get big, or you're in the process of getting big, like you have to go during that period,

Stephen Brooks  05:27

Correct? Correct. You're absolutely right. And I think that, as you say, you know, with limited time offers, there's a micro activation business operating out of the UK right now called souk, which has activations in their, in their stores, that might only be for three or four hours at a time, or day, or weekend. And so that really does focus the consumer on, okay, this product at this price, it's only available today. And they have had instances where people have queued around the block, you know, to get into the store. But I think, you know, that's the way that our industry is heading in terms of trying to be creative. And, and drive sales for the people that want to operate pop ups, or for the brands themselves, get that message out there. And it can be used in fun ways as well, you know, for town halls for music launches. Sukh actually had a guy that rented out the store for a few hours to propose to his girlfriend. So, you know, yeah, quite innovative.

Michael Maher  06:30

In they get any brands involved? Or it was just,

Stephen Brooks  06:34

It was just *inaudible* Yeah. But that would have been quite cool as well, I guess. So. Yeah,

Michael Maher  06:43

Have your, I was gonna say just have your, your proposal sponsored by Hermes or Louis Vuitton or something like that, would be engagements marriage is brought to you by Verizon never.

Stephen Brooks  06:56

Exactly right. Yeah. So. So the industry is moving, moving, moving pace. And, you know, retail in general, because of COVID had to adapt, and it's been a bit of a dinosaur. Yeah. You know, anybody's been in retail for as long as I have, you know, knows that it takes a long time to get stuff done. And it's only because of the likes of Amazon. And you know, online, strong online brands, Walmart and Target and so on, that's really forced retailers to think about the customer experience to think about, you know, the logistics, the, you know, the back of house inventory management in a far more focused way than they would have done previously.

Michael Maher  07:36

I think that's a great perspective. And something that, you know, the Amazon world is booming right now, ecommerce is booming right now. A lot of people get excited by the new and the shiny. But we can't forget the data, which says that majority of purchases are still being done in store. And I, I think just that data alone, you know, doesn't prove that. I don't think it proves necessarily that people need to see something in person. But it does say that tactile experience is important, so much so that when I use this on the podcast with Ron, but when a company on Amazon, that selling bugs spray put a 360 photo on their listing, what do you think, you know, bug spray? Okay, it's got, you know, what are the ingredients? Does it work? How many ounces is it? What else do you need to really know from bug spray, but they put a 360 photo on, and they increase their conversion rate by 10%. To me that says, and I'm you know, this is my interpretation, but people want as tactile and experience as possible, whether it's in store or online. And one of the ways that I see, you know, like, Omni channel is really what the longer game is about, it's about how do you, you know, not just play in the in store space? How do you not just play in the online space? But how do you merge those things together? And even online? You know, someone going having their own storefront versus being an Amazon, those are two totally different things. Yeah, they utilize some of the same technologies. Yeah, there's digital marketing, but the way that those things work are very, very different. So I've seen a lot of service businesses that fail to there. They're doing, you know, Shopify store builds, and they're doing Magento store builds and all that stuff. And they're like, oh, yeah, we can service Amazon, you know, it's pretty similar. And in reality, it's very difficult because the whole operating system is different. And one of the big things that we don't have as a service agency for with Amazon is developers and ecommerce companies that are, you know, developing ecommerce shops, that's their main. That's some of their main people are the developers and so like, we don't get to handle that, Amazon handles off the developing. You just say, okay, Amazon's like, Hey, here's this little small spot, put whatever you want in there. If we approve it, if we decide to upload it, like there's all you know, ifs and people will start to start working with Amazon. They're like, why did they do that? That doesn't make any sense. They shouldn't do that. And I'm like, Well, yeah, they shouldn't, and it doesn't make sense, but it's their rule. So we have to abide by their rules, and here's what we're gonna do. But majority of purchases are in store and I think omni channel really is the wave of the future. And what I like, to what I like hearing from you, is kind of validating some of the stuff that I've been saying, which is that I think the retail experience is going to change and evolve and hopefully be more of an experience, or someone comes in and instead of having, you know, like a Walmart, where the store is incredibly huge, and all the stock is out, and there's a smaller back room, we bring, you know, the store, we cut the store, you know, in half or in two thirds, and the first third of the store is really focused on a really engaging customer experience. And you can have people on the floor that are you know, demoing products or that are helping and assisting people almost concierge, like I'm not saying this is necessarily what would happen at Walmart, per se, but the rest of the back of houses is stock is storage, and a utilizing the infrastructure of logistics that ecommerce, especially companies like Amazon have really had to create, in order to get stuff done efficiently. That's really where I see the nature of things going.

Stephen Brooks  11:19

I mean, interestingly, you know, Best Buy heading that way anyway, you know, cutting down retail space, putting in micro distribution centers behind it, and fulfilling orders, you know, much faster and much more efficiently. And I think I think you're absolutely right, that's the way that's the way it will go. But it's the in store experience that drives people back. And if you look at retail attainment, so that kind of exponential side of things, you know, when you look at brands, like Lego, for instance, who who have put a lot invested a lot into the experience of when you shop, or even monopoly now has a retail format, you know, kind of a gamification retail format and f&b that has been launched in Europe and you see you know, the other the other experiences around you know, the office and friends and all of those sorts of things. And I think we've got a thirst for that as consumers we still would have had that first had COVID not come along but I think it's just been multiplied because we you know we felt constrained over the last 24 months so you're right that that's the way it moves I also think that that that in store space around you know keep fit products you know, peloton, mirror and other products that are coming through will dry *inaudible*, no exactly. And if you're going to invest all that money in a peloton what the first thing you want to do is sit on it and try it right.

Michael Maher  12:50

Right or like I think about the mirror some of the other more expensive ones that are like three or six grand and it's like I want to make sure it's not that I'm not willing to spend the money per se if I've got it it's that I want to make sure I'm making the right decision I wouldn't go through the hassle of purchasing something and setting it up and then being like, Oh, I don't like this user experience.

Stephen Brooks  13:08

Exactly right. We do we don't have we do have a challenge in brick and mortar retail anyway right now as do restaurants and then the entertainment industry in turn with not being able to recruit people into the businesses. And that's a big headache for a number of retailers walk through any mall down at any Main Street. And you'll see you know now hiring signs in probably, you know 90% of the businesses Yeah. 

Michael Maher  13:35

You are having such a hard time attracting people and I was gonna say one of the things that Ron I think brings to Ron Thurston brings to the game is talking about having pride in working in retail I've worked in retail before and sometimes there is a little bit of shame that you just kind of automatically assume of I'm in retail and so I'm not you know, working in some service thing I'm not working at a big company high up or I'm not an executive level but like you're the face of the company you are literally what will decide if someone comes back or not if they have a bad experience with you that and you work at Nordstrom, they may say I hate Nordstrom because of this one person and that person may not even be working there anymore. You know?

Stephen Brooks  14:16

Yeah, no, you're right. It comes down to training it comes down to motivation of the team, it comes down to the you know, the way the brand is positioned and people you know, want to go work for brands that they love, right? So I think that's the biggest challenge you know, trying to find people that buy into your offer buy into your brand. We have a program called the seven secrets to success to pop up retailing. And one of the elements of that is amazing customer service. Not good, not great. Not fine. Not okay, amazing. Because 64% of people will come back to the store and seek out that sales associate if they got great advice and went away with the product they really out, you know really had 

Michael Maher  14:58

That specific person. 

Stephen Brooks  14:59

That specific person. So when you start investing in people, and that's the key, you've got to invest back into the team, investing in technology is great. And, you know, people, people have been driven by that because of COVID, and click and collect, and you know, all of those sorts of things. So you got to invest in the team, you've got to invest in the look and feel of your pop up or your retail store.

Michael Maher  15:26

In the team, can you give us more like a real contextual example of in a pop up shop? How do you invest in the team?

Stephen Brooks  15:34

So for me, it's about taking them through the brand journey. Okay, it and then understanding the product? What are you looking to achieve? From your from your pop up experience? Right? Is it there purely as a marketing exercise? Are you there for just for brand awareness? Or are you there to sell products and create brand awareness you there to grow your database, and so on. So, so giving, giving those employees all the tools that they need, and sometimes, you know, Michael, it's not money, sometimes it's, it's, it comes down to just the way that you, you talk and you engage with your team, then it to anybody who's listening in retail, I'm sure there'll be a few that have, you know, turned up the first day at work, and somebody you know, gave them a badge, or gave them an overall or something, and then kind of left them to their own devices. For the day, somebody realized they were *inaudible*

Michael Maher  16:29

Figured out.

Stephen Brooks  16:30

Yeah, right, doesn't work, you know, it might have worked in 1975. But this is, this is 2022, almost, and the expectations, expectations are a lot higher, so much higher, so much higher, and there is that, you know, well, if I don't buy here, I can just go online and look for it. So I might not get that experience. So I think it's about and it's retail owners as well, that are the stumbling block to this because no longer is it acceptable, that we turn the lights on, we make sure the shelves are full, and we open the doors and people come right that yeah, that's not you've got to be visible, you do need to be using, you know, social media channels, you do need to be making sure that your customers are going away and telling everybody what a fantastic experience we just had, that Michael store all of those things, you know, add up and add up and add up, particularly now because, you know, when COVID hit, we went to a very, very localized buying geography, right. And I've been saying, for some time, local is now the new global. Because if, you know, do people really want to travel the 20 miles to a mall, 30 miles to a mall, where if they drove 30 miles to a mall in an opposite direction, they would see the same brands and the same architecture and the same food offer and so on. So you know, keeping people engaged, and Main Streets bringing, you know, pop up stores in that are different, you know, that have an experience, maybe it's pop up restaurants, maybe it's, you know, physical education products, and all of those sorts of stuff, just to keep it interesting. So you keep people in the environment, and landlords have really come around to that way of thinking as well, you know, that we need to be, we need to be more flexible on the prices that we charge, we need to be more flexible on, on what we can give them because as I said, right at the top of this, you know, the pop up retailing was kind of like the adolescent, you know, just go over there and don't bother us at all. And malls really do need to invest in time into those brands, because they are the brands of the future. They are the brands that are continually communicating with their customer base to say, this drops in the store today come and get it, you know, and

Michael Maher  18:49

You think that COVID probably accelerated some of those landlords, like they were eventually going to have to do that. But it kind of accelerated their need to do that. Because they're like, We need capital.

Stephen Brooks  18:58

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's no, it's no surprise that Simon went out and bought retailers up to, you know, to keep the doors open and so on in some of their stores. Because what were they going to do, you know, you, I still think you're going to see some middle ground attrition during 2022 just because of the knock on effect of logistics and staffing and you know, all of those other things but, but I think that if you focus on that, you know, focus on the team focus on the brand focus on the message. And then you know, if you use a pop up strategy if you move that around, so so that, you know, you broaden your reach, then it's a great strategy for growing your business. We've taken businesses from one location to 108 in less than 18 months, just using a pop up method. Wow. Yeah. Because,

Michael Maher  19:50

Real exposure and to real people across absolutely places across different market segments.

Stephen Brooks  19:56

Yeah. And, and this isn't just replicating it to the next year. location. And that's again where confusion sets in with people that get into pop up retailing, they just think it's going well for me here in mall A, mall B is just 10 miles down the road, I'll go and open up in there, it might be a totally different retail mix, totally different demographic, and so on. So, you know, part of what we do at the pop up expert is really doing deep dives into all of those factors that replicate what your success is. And then moving that to the right location.

Michael Maher  20:32

I know that like certain, like, here I am in Cincinnati, and someone who goes in shops at Kenwood Towne Center, which is like probably the most happening Mall. In this area. If you were to say, well, like what's on like, what about people on the west side, that's like the kind of not the, it's the side of town that like if you're West sider, you're West sider, and you don't like people from the east side. And if you're really anywhere else, and if you're from anywhere else, you like kind of looked down upon the west side, and the west side is just more, there's honestly a lot more. You know, big stores big like Walmart Applebee's, just like big Well, name brands, there's not, there's not a lot more, there might be some, you know, mom and pop shops, but there's not like the more artists and stuff, I would say, you definitely got a different demographic of people, maybe people that are working, you know, more. I don't know, industrial type jobs or crashing jobs, as opposed to people who have be working in finance or business wherever the case might be in some of these other areas. And that's not even always true. But if you were to go and create an experience at Kenwood Town Center here in Cincinnati, and then try and replicate that on the west side, it would not go well, because those people have a totally, they're likely looking at people at camera and like saying, Oh, they're like, you know, sticking their nose up at us, they think they're so posh and so great. And we're just like real, we're real, you know, real people. And so if you try to replicate that experience for people, it's not going to go out and be turned off your brand. So what you're saying is you help people to better understand where like, Okay, in this area, this is what you need to appeal to, this is what worked well for this area. So we need to take this and turn it into this kind of presentation, because that's what's going to work for these segments.

Stephen Brooks  22:27

If Yeah, I mean, with online brands, that's a lot easier to do. Because, you know, they already know who their customer bases and they've got some idea of who the target market is, but with, with people that are coming, you know, straight into a retail environment, we really want to do a deep dive into the product and the price, and then help them craft that message so that we put them in the right location to make sales, you know, obviously, that that's key, interestingly enough that you know the selling pattern of that is, can be a little scary as well, because, you know, I can tell you from having done hundreds of pop ups in, in 57 different countries in the world, that the first week, you're almost, you know, down down to the bone on your fingers, because people are kinda like, Oh, this is new, what's going on, you know, you do need to build consumer confidence. And it's, it's not to get to about week four, and five, that you actually see your sales, you know, really start to take off. So you have to, you have to understand that

Michael Maher  23:28

You do have to be patient, 

Stephen Brooks  23:29

You've got to be patient, but you need to do all the things around that as well. So you, you do need to keep that message going out, you do need to make sure that those sales that you're driving in the early days are still, you know, people are still leaving with great experiences, because they are the people that are going to be bringing other consumers back in the future. So that there is a degree of patience around that. You're absolutely right. And then once you've established that and you've tinkered with that model to get it, you know, 100% right, then that's when you start to replicate it in similar locations, you know, right demographics, as I'm saying, right, retail mix, and so on, right target market.

Michael Maher  24:07

So maybe it's not that you go to both places in town, it's that you say, Hey, who's more my market segment? I want to go to that place in this town and appeal to those people.

Stephen Brooks  24:17

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we're not just talking about product, you know, pop up can be, you know, food trucks. Right. Right, creating a food festival just out of food trucks in a mall car park or, or in a, you know, in a town car park. So, there's all sorts of different new,

Michael Maher  24:36

Like service industries like a barber or something like that. Have you seen any pop ups that are like around that so so that's probably gonna be more like a celebrity barber or something. But yeah, I don't know.

Stephen Brooks  24:50

So service industries do really well, in case so things like lawn cutting solar panels, garage doors, replacement windows, because you got time to stop and talk to the consumer, engage with them, qualify them, maybe set the appointment. But yes, having people come in to do something that's exponential, like, you know, you'd see, you see these guys on Tik Tok or on Instagram that just you know, plop a chair up in the middle of town and start cutting people's hair for free. And having conversations, you know, having that kind of experience, it would, would be lovely, but, you know, credit card companies, power companies, even car dealerships, from a service perspective, do great numbers from a pop up experience.

Michael Maher  25:37

But there has to be. So what I there has to be a commit a commitment to patients, but there has to be you said creating that experience. And so what you said about brands that are getting into malls and malls and landlords having to be a little bit more lenient with what they'll accept them, what they'll help provide certain tenants, as changed because the pop up brands that are doing pop up experiences, they're the brands of the future. And it's not that they're just popping up and expecting like you said, you can't just be Target or Walmart or, you know, any Home Depot or Lowe's opened the door as expect people to come people have an array of options, when it comes to where they're going to purchase they can purchase online, and we know that they do, they can purchase in directly from the brand store, online, they can go to that brand shop, they could go to a different retailer, smaller retailer that they know they're gonna have a better experience at than yours. It's not necessarily just price focused either. But they're doing these, these pop up shop brands or the brands that are doing pop up shops. They're engaging off Amazon, excuse me, I'm saying Amazon, they're engaging outside of the store, they're engaging on social media, they're saying they're creating, you know, like, hey, this, this item drops for four hours. And then after that four hours, or like, it's here, and then it's gone. Whoever gets these, it could be like a donut shop, you know, like, if there's a really great donut shop, it's like, we close when we sell out. So if they sell out at 9 am, and they own it since then, you know, then then then then then they're done. But that create an experience and like you get there at 10 o'clock, you're like Oh dammit, I missed this, this opportunity to have these really great doughnuts, but they're doing more than just popping up. It does not help the audience to understand more about that, like, the reason pop up shops are successful. It's not just because they're opening their doors. No, no, no, no, I mean, right? No, no,

Stephen Brooks  27:33

it's the, it's the whole back end of that. So pre promotion, to their, to their databases about where they're going to be how long they're going to be there. Right? I can give you a great example of a collaborative of streetwear brands that opened up here in Illinois, that that took all of their online customers with them on this journey through opening the store. And they did it in a really clever way. Because it was all in black and white as they did it, you know, kitting out stocking it and so on. And the day that they open, everything turned into color. And just kept people engaged. And you know, they post it six, eight times a day, they have people that want to come in every week, because they want the next in that series of so they're engaging with them, they, they created a selfie booth. So people now come in and buy the products and then post their own pictures on their own social media.

Michael Maher  28:31

And that's creating user generated content for the brand.

Stephen Brooks  28:34

Absolutely right? How cool is that? Right? They bring in DJs, that we can just, you know, people just come in and actually play some vinyl, which, which is great for kind of, you know, involving the consumer. And they've gotten to the stage now where they're, they're helping very small startups come in and do their own little pop up in their own pop up store at the weekend. And so, you know, instantly that there were four guys involved that collaborated on this product. So they Forex their reach because of the databases. And then you've got the reach of now consumers then you've got the reach of the popups within the pop up. Add that to the involvement that the malls put in to promote them and you know, get the message out to their regular shoppers. And they're doing great business. It's a real joy to see.

Michael Maher  29:31

I mean, imagine, I imagine that those brands that are putting in the effort to like you said, engage their email lists, engage their audience, if they started out online and building up the store, you're creating, they are already creating a great experience and those people want to come in then you're creating excitement around new lines, a selfie booth, a bringing a DJ and vinyl, and then people that are in the area, walk by a store and hear a DJ and they're like, oh, like what's going on here? Let's just check it out. Now you're getting that off the street traffic. And because you're engaging people like so I've as someone that's has been a reseller brands before and has gone to trade shows and you know sold those brands online on Amazon eBay, on my own website and created some my own brands that have some have succeeded, some haven't. And, you know, when you go and walk the trade show floor is like in Las Vegas. So many people do the same thing, it's a table with goods on it, and the persons behind the table is already separation from those people. And they're just expecting you to walk up. And the places that do the best are, when they typically open up the space, there's, there's a little bit more of an experience there. Like you can sit in a recliner while you watch this TV that somebody has. Or people can come in and play with something that's if it's a toy show, like, hey, come in and experiment with this thing. You can, you know, you can use it right here, or the the the person's kind of standing out a little in front, and they're like, Hey, have you ever seen bla bla bla bla, or they're just starting to engage with people that's drawing people in, you can't just you can't just sit there and say, people are going to come up? Like nobody has, I would say, argue that nobody has that revolutionary of a product, that it's just totally like everyone has to see it. Yeah, right now, majority of people don't. So it really is about how you're engaging the consumer, whether it's in person, whether it's once they get in the store, whether it's you know, sending them to a certain spot, whether it's their experience online, their experience on Amazon, all that kind of stuff. All each aspect of that really matters. Yeah,

Stephen Brooks  31:40

Totally 100% agree. And I still think we underestimate word of mouth, you know, talking to your friends about, you know, I've been in here, I've been in there. And we know it works against you. Because if you get a bad customer experience, restaurant retail, you tell everybody because you know, but you're right, you know, no one, no one I think has the right view to come and buy from them, you know, you've got to create the demand, you've got to create the interest, you've got to be open. And you're right. I've walked around a lot around many expos and exhibition halls where you say, you know, there's a table between you and half the time somebody sat, you know, on their laptop, or reading, reading the paper or not even engaged with you. And you see that in retail,

Michael Maher  32:28

and we didn't do well just trade show, we're not gonna go back to exactly your part.

Stephen Brooks  32:33

Exactly, right. So that, you know, I'm a firm believer in you've got to do everything with intention. And if your intention is to go and sit there for two days, and you know, catch up on your email, or, or binge watch something on Netflix, just because you got the time, you shouldn't be going.

Michael Maher  32:50

Well, and that's what I liked so much about Ron's story is the people that are interacting with other people are the face of the brand. So they don't have pride in what it is that they're doing. If they aren't proud of where they work, or excited to be a part of the company that they work with. Again, like you said, it's not always about pay, if they enjoy the brand that they work with, and they know that they're doing something unique, and there's opportunity for them to grow. That could be that potential opportunity could be more exciting than just getting a more cash up front. Yeah, but they're also going to have a better impact on the consumer too, because they're out there in front saying, Hey, this is great. I love my job. Let me tell you about. Let me give you a great experience and show you how much I love my job. And that's going to help create a brand evangelist out of you that consumer.

Stephen Brooks  33:42

No, absolutely wearing the brand using the brand. As you say, you know if they've bought into that, then that gives the consumer confidence as well.

Michael Maher  33:54

All right, well, Steph, if people want to find you, where would they where would you be popping up next we'll be popping up on the west side of town over here which is up in Dubai tell people where if they wanted to get a hold of you or know more about what it is that you're doing? Where would they find you?

Stephen Brooks  34:10

Sure. Easiest way is go to the website thepopupexpert.com, you can reach me by emailing me at steve@thepopupexpert.com as well. You'll find me on on Tik Tok as The Pop Up Expert. You'll find me on Instagram as the @theretailspecialist. So come and engage have a chat. I'm a big believer as he's run as a lot of people in retail about just sharing our knowledge. Right? You know, just for free just hey, this works. You know you want to try this. What are you struggling with? So I'm always happy to you know, get an email from people get a phone call from people. They were just looking for, for some for some insight, maybe a little bit of help. So,

Michael Maher  34:53

That's awesome. Well, people the future of retail is here. It's coming in many formats. In many fashions, yes. People on Amazon, yes, people have their own store fronts. You know, on the internet, I think that thing's gonna pan out, we'll see. And people are having, you know, their own brick still stable brick and mortar stores, but people are having their own pop ups, there's so many different ways that you can experience a brand. And so I think the message for me the message to brands is, how many touch points do you have? Are you touching the places where your consumer is? If they're on Amazon, which they likely are, and they're also in a specific city in a certain area of the city. And they like experiences which most people do you need to engage with those people wherever it is that they are and invest in in a you know, a multi layered experience of retail is here. Yeah, it's happening right now. Thanks so much, Steve for coming on pleasure and playing a longer game with me.

Stephen Brooks  35:54

No, thanks for having me on. much. Appreciate it.

Michael Maher  35:57

Alright people, that's the end of the show. We'll talk to you later.