Entrepreneurial Adversity and the Never-Ending Quest for Meaning

While the title of this episode is a tad dramatic, the conversation does go pretty deep. Elizabeth Presher, the Owner of Hite Digital Dayton, is an experienced Entrepreneur helping other business owners grow their presence online. She has an advantage here because she knows the pressure that those business owners face. She is one, after all. The lessons she has learned, along with our host Michael, show you how steep the learning curve is when you get into business. Retail, and how consumers shop, is constantly evolving so staying ahead of the curve is important. Want to know more lessons from being an Entrepreneur? Have a listen.

Michael Maher  00:00

Welcome, everybody to The Longer Game. I'm your host, Michael, there has been no other host. So I'm the only host ever. But thank you for joining us. We're in our second season and we're talking with a lot of different people about retail and I think a much more interesting, not much more interesting because it my first season had interesting guests now they're all going to be pissed that I said that if they're even listening to the episodes, but we've got a just a different group that kind of goes beyond some of the initial Amazon digital retail people that we talked with. And so we're getting into just a different group of people. Anyway, today with me is Elizabeth Presher. And she's the owner of Hite Digital Dayton, which is a marketing company or an agency that's helping brands to increase. I'd say brick-and-mortar brands to increase their digital presence and allow you to maybe, correct me if I'm wrong or talk more about that. But welcome, Elizabeth, thanks for joining me.

Elizabeth Presher  00:55

Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here, excited to chat. And yes.

Michael Maher  01:02

You're only like 45 minutes for me, but we never met in person.

Elizabeth Presher  01:06

Yeah, OH.

Michael Maher  01:07

O H I O!

Elizabeth Presher  01:11

You're supposed to. *inaudible*

Michael Maher  01:16

I was slow on the uptake, but I got it.

Elizabeth Presher  01:19

That's okay. We're not actually *inaudible*. So it's okay. My husband is an Iowa fan. And *inaudible*

Michael Maher  01:25

I'm like, not a sports fan.  Okay, see, I'm not even a big sports person but my wife, and I've lived here in Cincinnati most my life. But when the Bengals made it to the like God when their conference and got to the Super Bowl last year. My wife is born and bred in Cincinnati, and so it was like all about it. And I'm like, Okay, this year, I guess I'm gonna have to like be an official fan. I can't make any jokes about getting a three-point or anything like that. Like I don't know what's going on. So now I have an official bangles. T-shirt from their shop. So I'm now officially sportsman.

Elizabeth Presher  01:28

*inaudible* Who dey? That was a good year. We deserve it.

Michael Maher  02:05

Yeah, it was a really good year. And I heard my wife saying I don't remember this, but that there was a lot of praise for the Bengals fans out in here. Because I think the game was in LA last year. Where was it, yeah I think it was in LA and the bands were really nice. 

Elizabeth Presher  02:28

*inaudible*

Michael Maher  02:28

That's true. I mean, I think there's the Midwest are good people. When I go to New York, I bump into someone I'm turning around to say I'm sorry and they're already gone but to their defense, they bump into people all the time. You can't say I'm sorry to that many people so you just have to get used to it.

Elizabeth Presher  02:43

Right.

Michael Maher  02:43

But yes, I do appreciate other people that are from the Midwest. So tell us a little bit more about Hite. And what you're doing with companies?

Elizabeth Presher  02:52

Yeah, absolutely. So I actually started in the retail ECOM space. Gosh, in 2013, I actually started a mobile boutique. So I was in a job that I enjoyed. But I was really looking for something different. And I was like I said to my best friend one day, I think I'm going to open a boutique. I like shopping I like clothes. And I had grown up very entrepreneurial, both my mom started a business when I was born. And it's grown into this amazing cleaning company. My dad, when I was in middle school, started something on his own too. So I was really raised an entrepreneur slash, you know, just kind of, 

Michael Maher  03:31

Oh wow.

Elizabeth Presher  03:32

independent, I was really thankful to have that. That upbringing, I always thought I would start my own business. But I didn't know exactly what that looked like, for me like what was the thing? So I looked into opening a boutique. 

Michael Maher  03:43

Do you think there was also something innate in you that was then developed by your parents being entrepreneurial? Because like, I'm an entrepreneur, and the more I look back, I'm like, oh, yeah, that totally makes sense. But I like my parents were not entrepreneurs themselves. It was, well, actually, my dad kind of was in his biochemistry career at times, but that wasn't like the main theme. 

Elizabeth Presher  04:04

Sure. 

Michael Maher  04:04

So I'm curious to know, if you felt like there was something that was maybe already there and just being around that environment kind of gave you more confidence to do that.

Elizabeth Presher  04:10

Yeah, kind of like the nature versus nurture. I do think that I have a bit of like an anarchist streak, I always say, you know, kind of like a perfectionist, but I also think this is kind of a whole another, you know subject, but I was also diagnosed with ADHD when I was 40. And so I realized, like, you know a lot of what you see become entrepreneurs for a lot of different reasons, you know, that really, like, kind of correspond with the, you know, characteristics of someone with ADHD. And so I'm like, I do think I had it. I think it was both like, that was my nature was, you know, independent. 

Michael Maher  04:47

Okay.

Elizabeth Presher  04:47

I always like money. I always like talking about money. I joke, not really even joke, but when I was in college, I would say to my girlfriends, like, with their majors, I'm like, oh, you know, we would just talk about like what our parents *inaudible*, what our houses cost? And none of my friends knew those answers. And I always thought, It's really strange money was like a very open conversation with my family. And so I think I was aware, pretty early to that entrepreneurship did bring more opportunities than other, you know, things that I might pursue that were more like corresponding with my communication degree. So I think that it was definitely. 

Michael Maher  05:18

My daughter asked us all the time, what things cost? 

Elizabeth Presher  05:25

Yes. 

Michael Maher  05:26

She's like how much money do you have? And we're like, are you like, gonna go until your friends? We don't want you to like, I'm happy to tell you, how much did your house costs? How much does this house cost? How much does this cost? And I'm not going to happy to like, clue you in, 

Elizabeth Presher  05:39

Right. 

Michael Maher  05:39

It's not I even care about other people knowing that finances, I don't want it to be seen as like, oh, well, my parents have this. And like, the other day, she's my daughter said, She's nine. And she said, how much money do you think you've spent like over a million dollars in your whole life? And I said, no, not even close. And she's like, really? like kind of disappointed that I hadn't spent that much money. I'm like, no sweetie, like that's, I mean that really is a lot of money. That's a number that's talked about a lot. And when I think about like setting business goals, it can sometimes seem arbitrary, but it is for the same reason, we might say, let's, I'll get there 10, instead of like 1057, or 958. Like, it's just easier to set those numbers instead of saying, you know, I want to hit $950,000, like a million just sounds different. But she was, I think ultimately disappointed that I hadn't spent that much. I'm like, you have to make that and accumulate it before you can spend it. 

Elizabeth Presher  05:39

Yeah.

Michael Maher  05:42

I don't know that anyone would give me a million dollars in credit, nor would I want it but.

Elizabeth Presher  06:44

Right. Isn't that funny? Well they think too. I was actually just having this conversation. Now, kids that are watching YouTube. And like, my oldest knows, like, the net worth of Michael Jordan, you know, like, I just think these things are probably like the information age that we live in. You know, we know so much more like our kids knows much more. And they know how much YouTubers make and they know how much you know, all these things. And so I feel like it's, you know, it's a different kind of, I do think in a lot of ways that probably breeds entrepreneurs more than back in the day, I was actually I met with entrepreneurs yesterday in a program at our University of Dayton. And I'm sitting with these sophomores and they're like, I started my first business last year, and I have a Shopify store and I and the other girl was like, I upcycle clothes, and I have a heat press in my room. And I was like, 

Michael Maher  07:39

Oh wow.

Elizabeth Presher  07:40

What was I doing in my *inaudible* and College?

Michael Maher  07:42

That's cool. 

Elizabeth Presher  07:42

Yes, it was. 

Michael Maher  07:43

Yeah, I was not paying attention. I know that for sure.

Elizabeth Presher  07:47

No, I was like, you have a, she's like, I have a Shopify store and I design and then they're produced in China, and then they ship them, and I was working in Clavijo yesterday, and I was like, wow, y'all, like, you know, you go into University of Dayton is, you know, it's a good school. It is an expensive school so you go to it, and you sometimes think that there's the like a little bit of, you know, kids that are just go in there to have a lot of fun. And I was so impressed by that. 

Michael Maher  08:16

Yeah.

Elizabeth Presher  08:16

Spirit, and that hard work *inaudible*

Michael Maher  08:18

My daughter was actually watching. Oh, yeah, well, speaking about knowing more about money in YouTubers. My daughter is often talked about, oh, this person, this YouTuber makes, you know, $10 million a year or something like that. So I think there's more awareness of that, which I think helps sometimes just raising awareness of this is an issue or this is a fact. Then people know, and it just becomes a part of their vocabulary. But my daughter, and a friend of hers were watching a video on YouTube that was saying which company do you think makes more? And it was really interesting, like Lays and Harboe came up and was like, who do you think makes more? And I was like, oh, Lays. And the girls were like, oh, yeah, well, they've got more things. I said, well Harboe, I think owns more, they don't have just that, 

Elizabeth Presher  09:04

Sure.

Michael Maher  09:04

product. And that I think was something like, oh, okay, that was something that was new. Like, just because you're Coca Cola, doesn't mean you're only selling Coca Cola, there's other things that go under it. But there were several that I got wrong, that I was like, oh okay, like, I guess I didn't think about it, but a lot of them, the companies they paired together, it was sort of prestige versus maybe like, I feel like prestige versus ubiquity. And yeah, and when you when I think about the people that are most vocal like I make all this money, the people that make even more than those people are very quiet about it. They're not super boasting. So it's like this, maybe it's the teenage years of money acquisition that you just get a little bit more loud about that kind of stuff. But it was interesting that they were watching this, I didn't tell them to watch this video. They just watched it on their own.

Elizabeth Presher  09:43

So crazy that they can do that like that it's there that they, and to shape their mind. And I think, you know, like I said, when I started my boutique, as much as I thought I knew, because I was raised by entrepreneurs, and I thought pretty smart, you know, there's so much that I learned going into my boutique, and it was a mobile boutique. And so there was a lot of like, learning involved in, you know, kind of the been transition to marketing, the further I got into, especially as a, you know, started a Shopify store. And I thought, you know, it was very much in that mindset of, like, if you build it, they will come, everybody is going to come to my site. 

Michael Maher  09:54

Yeah.

Elizabeth Presher  09:54

That's what we think.  And they did not. And so, I then thought, I got to do some like, I've got to figure this out, I gotta learn how to drive traffic, I got to learn these kind of back end things. And I loved marketing, you know, kind of in my previous career. So that's when I took, you know, an Ezra Firestone course, the Ecommerce marketing with digital marketer, and that really, 

Michael Maher  09:55

Right, yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth Presher  10:59

changed the trajectory of my career. Because I got into the, you know, traffic and conversions, and really like working through all those things in, you know, cost of acquisition, and in just all the metrics involved, that to me, and I didn't start a boutique, because I started it because I like clothes. And I started it because I wanted to do something, 

Michael Maher  11:20

Yeah.

Elizabeth Presher  11:21

different. And then, as I got more into this, I realized, I love marketing, and I love the service side of it, I love and I think I've heard you say that, like, *inaudible* You know, I loved seeing.

Michael Maher  11:33

I became an entrepreneur for a very different reason than why I'm still an entrepreneur, I became an entrepreneur, because they hated my job.

Elizabeth Presher  11:40

Yeah.

Michael Maher  11:40

And it's still an entrepreneur, because I love the freedom that it provides me and I get to, but I'm very driven. And so I get to build and grow things that are, you know, maybe started by me, and I get to pass them on my team. And they make them way better than I initially could. But I get to create, and I'm very risk tolerant. So like, failing at something is okay for me. I think early on, and I talked about with you about this before, but early on, when I was running an eCommerce business, and it failed. After six years, I felt like I was a failure, because my identity was wrapped up in the success or failure of my business. And it wasn't until I, and it was because of that failure that I was able to step back and say, Okay, I have an identity outside of my business. So even if my business is not successful, i'm still valuable as a person. And I even try to take it further back from that and say, you know, I was made in the image of God, and even if, like, let's say, if my wife left me and my, my daughter never talked to me again, could I still be happy and have identity outside of those things. And so that really is my goal. I'm not going into those relationships, expecting those people to complete me, but they're very complimentary to what I do, and just blessings that are there. But once I got into the service side of things, there was so much more fulfillment, even though it wasn't identity in that, but there was so much more fulfilling work because I just creating products or buying products and selling them. That wasn't very, it was fun at times, but it wasn't very fulfilling, being able to go on with someone saying, I know exactly how we're going to make this work. And it's going to be so awesome. I can't wait to show you how successful you're going to be. And even in the sales process, talking with brands, saying, Look, I know you're going to be successful, so when it comes to like, initial cost of services for us, like we still have to make money, but I can be flexible in how we price things because I'm confident that, like I can't guarantee anything, but I'm really confident that I'm willing to bet our profitability on it. And that goes a long way, because then people see you as a partner. And so that has been, it's just so much more fun,

Elizabeth Presher  13:48

Yeah. to watch someone else be successful. And I feel like, I'd love to talk more about how were the supporting actors, supporting actress to this lead role, and helping you to really shine, and I'm getting more comfortable. Even though I like the spotlight, I'm not gonna lie, Yeah.

Michael Maher  14:05

in a room. I'm the one that's telling the stories and trying,  yeah, and trying to be just, you know, the funny class clown kind of person, but I'm getting more comfortable with being the person that's maybe behind the other person which also speaks to the journey of having children, which is great. I saw someone on Twitter that said, all my smart friends are not having kids and all my stupid friends are having a lot of kids. And there was this guy and Twitter's just, you know, it's filled with interesting stuff,

Elizabeth Presher  14:35

Very.

Michael Maher  14:35

on there to try and raise my profile around Amazon. Because I have a buddy that's doing it and I was like, okay, like, I'll give it a shot.

Elizabeth Presher  14:42

Right.

Michael Maher  14:42

But this guy, he said, Oh, that's terrible advice for entrepreneurs. Having kids is like one of the best things you can do as an entrepreneur. And he goes through all these things that are related to the process of being a business owner, like sales, you have to convince someone that they need something. And he was like, you have to convince your kids that they need to do this thing, quote unquote, sales, you have to make sure that your kids are happy customer service. I was like, Oh, that's so great. Like, that's so smart, that really is a good test of, can you withstand entrepreneurship, because there are going to be people that are the kids that are not going to be grateful for the things that you're doing for them. And you have to just be okay with that. Because you know, that you're hopefully fulfilling a larger purpose there.

Elizabeth Presher  15:23

Right, right. And I think too, you know, when you compare it to clients, like, you know, that not everything's in your control all the time, and, you know, we do our job, and we do our job, the best of our ability, but things don't always go the way that we want them to. And I think that's parenting, like, in a nutshell, that, you know, we want to raise these people and I think, going back to your, you know, the identity thing and like finding your identity and like because God made you and I, we talk to our kids about that so much, because, you know, there are so many things not like that are rollercoasters in our lives is, you know, if we as women find it in our looks like we're gonna get older, and that's a hard thing to, you know, think about and not that we should not put effort into staying in shape, not that we shouldn't put effort into,

Michael Maher  16:12

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Elizabeth Presher  16:13

being healthy, like, those are important things, you know, we should still put up *inaudible*.

Michael Maher  16:16

I think it's about being a good steward of what you've been given.

Elizabeth Presher  16:19

Yeah. And with our family. And, you know, one of the things even like, as an entrepreneur that we, it was a person that I think about a lot too, is like those values and like, my husband and I have talked recently a lot about, you know, saying what are our core values, and it's one thing, I used to think like, I've written my core values down, like, I've accomplished something, and then I realized what I'm living is not matching up to those core values, there's nothing to it, like, the way I'm spending my money and my time and my effort and my attention, like good for you for writing them down, speaking to myself, but what is it if you haven't, like, congratulations, like, you treated that person, like crap that you wrote down, you value people in, you know, so I think that's, you know, a piece of that, you know, entrepreneurship and parenting.

Michael Maher  17:10

I think that speaks to. Well, I was just gonna say, that's so well said. And I think about that, too, is what I'm doing here, actually living out what I say my purpose is because and I talked about this with, I was actually at Xavier University talking to class on entrepreneurship yesterday. So it looks like, 

Elizabeth Presher  17:31

*inaudible*

Michael Maher  17:31

we're doing the university thing. But I really enjoy. Sometimes I'm like, it's hard to read the kids. And there was an 8:30 class I was talking at one kid was like, and I wanted to call him out for sleeping when like, I think I've been there. 

Elizabeth Presher  17:46

Yeah yeah.

Michael Maher  17:47

I wanted to say like, man, this guy's really not liking what I'm saying. Because of watching him like dudes, but like, it's cool. I wasn't offended. I just wanted to, like, kind of make a joke about it, but I didn't. But I'm talking to them. And I'm saying, you know, people, the professor who I know who has been entrepreneur, and even just the concept of teaching entrepreneurship at school, I don't really know how I feel about that. I think it's good that it's being taught and there's more awareness, but it is really about getting out and doing it because entrepreneurship. And I would even say brands, there is this sex appeal to being a brand owner or if you look at like Beyonce's clothing brand or any celebrity that has any kind of clothing brand, there's fame and there's you know, like a sexiness to it. But there is a very unsexy side to being entrepreneur. And I'd say probably 85 to 90% of it is that and so you have to be okay to traverse the muddy waters or the slop in the mundane day in and day out stuff that doesn't feel so great with the. You have to be okay to traverse that and not be so much focused on the 10 or 15%. One of the things I think about is, if I'm successful, am I putting too much stock in that and if I'm unsuccessful, am I getting too down and like upset about that? Like, can I keep going moving forward as opposed to you know, saying oh, this down or this up was terrible. But anyway, what I told some of these classes was just be honest with yourself about what it is that you're doing, if your goal is to hit a million dollars or something and that's it. I think that's okay. I don't think you'll ultimately be fulfilled in doing that if it's just about that. And I said you know, when people say it's not about the money I think they're bullshit, because,

Elizabeth Presher  17:48

Right.

Michael Maher  18:15

it is about the money but if it's just about the money then there's nothing else that goes beyond that. So like don't get me wrong. You know, I  want to be able to feed and help my family and I want to, you know, have money to go on trips and things like that, like the money is important. But there has to be more than beyond the money. But I said, Just be honest with yourself about it. If you're saying, Oh, I'm an entrepreneur, because I'm doing this for my family, and you look back, and you're like, oh, I don't spend any time with my family, 

Elizabeth Presher  20:16

Right.

Michael Maher  20:16

Your values, or what you're saying are your values are not really aligned with what you're doing. And I bring that up to say, how much from your experience, how much do you think the problem with with business owners or even retail business owners who are trying to sell a product to someone, how much they, how much of maybe their lack of success is tied to saying this is what we do, but then them not actually knowing what it is that they do?

Elizabeth Presher  20:47

You know, I think very much and I think, you know, a big part of it, too. And this ties in with what you were saying with like Beyonce and the brand and the sexiness and the, you know, so before I became a part of hate digital I, my agency was called Grit and Grace digital marketing. And we work a lot with boutiques. And so you know, I like the prettiness of grit and grace. And, you know, I think when I started I was like, grit. Yeah, like, that's, you know, that's such a buzzword, and I do love because it's, you know, it's so needed. And, you know, studies keep showing us over and over again, it isn't about talent, it's about grit, and even starting grit and grace. I was like, I've got grit, I'm scrappy. And I realized in that,

Michael Maher  21:28

I like that word. 

Elizabeth Presher  21:29

Scrappy? I mean,

Michael Maher  21:31

That's a good word.

Elizabeth Presher  21:33

it's like you *inaudible*

Michael Maher  21:35

I use it with brands or clients. I'm like, we're scrappy, like, we can figure this out, will get it done.

Elizabeth Presher  21:41

I actually, so I played soccer growing up, that was my sport. And I played club soccer through sixth grade, but I was always the shortest on the team. And I remember one of the group *inaudible* that used to watch he said to my dad, and my dad still brings us up like 30 years later, but he'd say that grandpa be like, I bet that girl has a lot of brothers, she's scrappy, like she looks and I was like, I'll take it. I had a mean older sister, but I didn't have brothers. She's not mean anymore.

Michael Maher  22:06

But still, you were scrapping? Oh, yeah. And I think that's a good thing, though. Because it means you're resourceful and you're able to, like I told the classes that I spoke to yesterday, I believe I'm a smart person. I don't think I'm especially more intelligent than the next person, you know, that you're looking at. But I'm willing to, to figure it out. And I'm willing to go the extra mile to figure it out and to troubleshoot. And I've got persistence, like if nothing else, I am persistent, I might lack a lot of things. But I'm willing and maybe sometimes to fall, I just keep going when it's like you should probably give up on this. Now it's time to let it go. And I've learned lessons from that but like being persistent, in having endurance, or at least a desire to build greater endurance, or the capability to do it, even if you don't have the desire, because sometimes I show up to work. And I'm like, I don't want to deal with this. But I still do it because I know that it's important. So being able to have the capacity, maybe I should say, to build endurance is very key to being a successful entrepreneur, successful brand owner, successful retail company, if you think about the way that the pandemic changed things, there were a lot of companies that had to fold because they were not adaptable, or they chose not to adapt. They didn't know how they needed to adapt. And there were a lot of companies that were born out of the pandemic for that were successful, and grew during that time. Because no one knew that there was going to be a global pandemic, although I will say my wife and I had been watching Last Man on Earth by Will Forte from SNL. Have you seen that show?

Elizabeth Presher  23:52

I haven't. Is it good?

Michael Maher  23:56

It's good. And it's eerie, because the whole show is, is about? It was done in like 2016.

Elizabeth Presher  24:02

Oh, gosh.

Michael Maher  24:03

Yeah, I think 2016 and the whole show is about how in 2019 a global pandemic hits and kills almost everybody in the world. There's only like, a lot like one guy left and it's really like a couple people. But you see footage of they'll go back during when the the pandemic started. And like TV announcers are wearing masks, and other people wearing masks. And there's all these like protocols, and it's like, oh my gosh, like he must feel like a genius because he called it.

Elizabeth Presher  24:31

Yeah.

Michael Maher  24:32

No one knew that was gonna happen.

Elizabeth Presher  24:33

Right.

Michael Maher  24:34

I mean, I'm sure there's some good conspiracy theories out there, but no one knew that was going to happen. And so you know, you have to adapt, or else, or at least be adaptable and say, there are a lot of I think business owners who and I think maybe it was you and I were talking about retail stores. You said okay, we need to how, Oh, no, you know, it was a woman that I talked to who owns a branding agency, and she said that she was helping a lot of like local store owners to develop their brands. And she got into Ecommerce because the pandemic hit and they're like, we need to get a store or like a digital storefront, we need to be adaptable. And so now she does most of her work in Ecommerce and they still do, you know, branding and other things like that for for retail companies. But that was a big part of not just these companies changing, but her as a service provider, she had to adapt.

Elizabeth Presher  25:24

Absolutely. Well, it's funny, because I mean, COVID changed my entire business, we were really focused on, we had a Shopify loyalty program that was built in Messenger, and we were growing with it slowly. And then with COVID, all these boutiques were like, we need it. Like, we need a better Ecommerce strategy, like we've either got to, like, we have to be prepared to shut down again, or we have to be prepared, you know. And so we did a lot of Facebook ads, and really exploded during COVID. And it changed, like, it completely changed everything for me too. And so, you know, through that, and this kind of goes back to the, you know, grit and grace and the like, fighting, you know, I was grit and grace, like I want it to be grit and grace, but you don't really know the grit you have until you are facing something really hard. And because we exploded during COVID, we didn't have SOPs in place to support that growth, because it happened so fast. And as it's happening, we didn't have the SOPs. And so we were playing catch up. And you know, there was just a lot and in the midst of that you're dealing with iOS 14. And then you have like, all these changes, and, and it was a lot of catching up in. And ultimately it led me to become a part of digital. And it was it turned out to be one of the best things that has ever happened to me. And I'm so thankful and proud to be a part of this organization. But it was, you know, like you said, Do people sometimes say who they are, but they're not really that time was when like, do you have grit? Or do you not like when you're getting texts from clients that you know, where they're disappointed, and a lot of that is external forces that I had no control over. But like it is the hard stuff that I do. You don't want to have grit, honestly, like, I don't want to be put in a situation where I have to show my grit, because that's the hard stuff. But it is through that hard stuff that you like, as a mom, I want my boys to see like, yeah, I was sitting on the ground crying when I got that text from an manager of a store. That's the meanest text I've ever received in my life. But yeah, I also got it the next day. And they looked for the answer. And I bought from a business, I bought from a client's and I made changes based on that to again, some is external and some was things that I was doing, but I want my boys to see like, grit isn't biting, when it's easy. Grit is fading when you've made mistakes, when you're dealing with other people's mistakes when you're dealing with hard stuff. And, and so I think, you know, businesses in general, we go into it, you go into it for the, you know, the end and what you see successful businesses doing, you know, the lifestyle, then you're going to be disappointed, because that's not the beginning. That's, you know, that's after a lot of really hard stuff. And my favorite entrepreneurs, you know, my parents went to commercial cleaning company and my dad, when needed would go and clean those toilets. My mom worked or, you know.

Michael Maher  28:20

Becoming entrepreneural was not Steve Jobs, is that what you're saying? or Mark Zuckerberg or all the very famous people.

Elizabeth Presher  28:26

It is not, it's may, you know, it's those, like, my former boss who owned a catering company and like, was out there with us, like in the trenches sweaty in that tent wedding, and fighting for her business and showing, you know, it kind of goes back to like, we were talking about a little bit before with, you know, parenting and, you know, modeling that behavior, you know, when we're yelling at RAS, which you and I are not yelling your RAS but when people are yelling your RAS, that's the *inaudible* Right. That's what our kids see. And again, it goes back to I say I'm not getting out there at that age. So I think that you know, that entrepreneur thing where you can be that example and like model that behavior to your employees, everyone around you and to your clients. So they see like, you know, this is not for show like I want to be in the trenches and that goes back to your point of like that joy and that like fulfillment that comes from the service side of it like, it's so funny I remember my first Black Friday outside of retail, owning a retail business, but I had you know 20 clients and I was like yes, this is like I get to be home on Black Friday. I'm gonna just like I don't have to worry about thing.

Michael Maher  28:56

Hopefully not. Yes.

Elizabeth Presher  28:57

And but then I realized. I used to work at Starbucks and Black Friday was, I would always go to the store in the mall and help a friend out who in the store there because I worked there at one point.  Yeah.

Michael Maher  29:56

And we would get up at like, I get up at 3 and have to be there like 4, and there was like 15 people on this tiny floor of this tiny store. And it was a beast. And by the end of the day, like 5pm, I was like, Man, I'm just,

Elizabeth Presher  30:09

Exhausted. 

Michael Maher  30:09

toasted, but not having to do that, or having like other family members that, Oh, I work at Macy's, I have to go work this Black Friday sale. I'm like, man, and one of the things that I felt for them. But one of the things that frustrated me the most is starting to see. And I think COVID reverse this, and I hope it stays this way. But starting to open up on Thanksgiving. 

Elizabeth Presher  30:32

Yeah. 

Michael Maher  30:33

Why are why are we doing that? What is the intention behind that? Do you really need that? Are you really getting that many more sales? And do you really need those? Or would the satisfaction of your team. And the thing is the people that are setting these policies, it's not the people that are working the front lines.

Elizabeth Presher  30:50

Right.

Michael Maher  30:51

It's the people and that's where I think entrepreneurs that like the you talk about your boss that was fighting, you know, in the tent wedding and getting after it and getting in the trenches. Those are the kinds of people who know what it's like to be responsible for the business, not make a decision for the business, but know what it's like to be responsible for that. And so they value and someone works hard, and likely value giving that person time off and saying, I want them to be with their family. So we're going to close on this day, and we're not going to do anything because whatever sales we might make might actually hurt our integrity, or it might make us not aligned with our vision anymore. And those from an entrepreneur perspective. I've said this before, but you know, I would rather, because I think at a certain point, very famous and successful people, there's a level of selfishness that has had to be there. And I'm not, I'm not necessarily placing a judgment on that but there's a focus on self that has had to be there to elevate yourself to that place. And a great example is this guy behind me prince, i'm a huge prince fan but he couldn't really hold a long term relationship down. And one of the reasons and he has a song called guitar or my guitar. And the like, poke of the song is I love you, baby, but not like I love my guitar. And he put a lot of effort and commitment into his work. And he's got great work. But when you look at how he treated other people, like people would just he would fly people in and say, Hey, you're gonna be a part of this show. And then an hour before, hey, you're not part of the show, and I'm not paying you. Like what, you need to pay my guys at least for like coming out here or, Hey, like it 3am engineers, hey, like they would stay close to Paisley Park his home. And Hasson Minnesota, the suburb outside Minneapolis. And we could do a whole show on on Prince tribute, but we won't, and but he would call people up at 3am and say, Hey, I've got an idea, like coming to record. And the thing is, people wanted to be a part of it, because they knew that it would be something that would be history making. But he could never hold down a long term relationship because he was so focused, I think on himself. And to me, there is a period, and I think there's still a piece of you that that does want that if I'm honest, like I would love to, there's a piece of me that would love to be just so known as the best at something. But I will, I've chosen because I think it's a better choice, if I have to sacrifice some revenue, because it means I actually get to make memories with my family. I'm good with that. And I think, again, being clear about what you're about. I talk on prospecting calls all the time, or with, you know, partners that might refer people are when I say, we're willing to forego revenue, and growth, if it means we're not going to fully be aligned with that person, because we might make money for three months, but then they're gonna call it off. And that's not what the agreement is, we have a minimum term, you know, maybe up to six months, although we're hoping to work with someone for much longer than that. But if they're not invested in it, we've spent this time and honestly, they probably wasted money in us because they didn't really reach the full potential that was there. And so if we're not aligned on stuff, I'm okay with missing out of the revenue because it means we're not going to be investing in something that is not going to give a return for either of us. So like, again, being clear about why you're doing something if you're brand. Why are you actually, why are you in business? Do you have a mission statement? Like when I start a prospecting call with someone, they want to know, what are your capabilities as an agency great, and I'm like, and sometimes I'll just say, hey, look, yeah, and sometimes I'll say, Hey, I just want you to know, like, yes, most people know what we do. But I say, you know, we're pretty much a custom done for you service agency on Amazon so we can do anything that you need to. But I really like to start these calls by finding out more about you and about the brand. And if there's not a lot there. We're probably not going to be a good fit for that person because we really believe in the power of a brand. And if they're just wanting to hit a sales target only, it's going to fall flat. And we're again, a lot of people will say, Oh, man, it's this crazy time of year. And we've got all these clients that are focusing on that are checking in with us throughout the day on on metrics or things like that on a Black Friday or something like that. And i'm, or it's q4 things are crazy on Amazon. And I think, wait really like you really feel that? I don't feel that because are the people that we're working with. They expect that we're going out there and taking care of it. And hopefully, we built trust with them that they believe that we will. But I don't know if people that are checking in and saying how's this promotion going through the day, they might say like, Hey, how did things go afterwards? 

Elizabeth Presher  35:50

Right. 

Michael Maher  35:50

But they expect that we're going to do it. And also if someone's wanting to check in on a daily basis, or an hourly basis on how well something's going. I think we're missing out on what the point of those kinds of promotions might be maybe for a brick and mortar store, it might be to drive additional retail sales. But for something on Amazon, any kind of like prime, like the prime fall day event that just happened. That's not about profitability it is about driving sales, on your listing, so that you can get a higher, you can get higher visibility, organically. And there's a lot of stuff that goes into that. But that's why you do that. So if you're focused on profitability throughout the hour, you're probably doing something, I think you're doing something wrong for the wrong reasons. And so we just, I won't even, I want to prevent, like, cut that off the head and say, if that's the kind of relationship we're going to have, then it's not going to work because we're not, we're focused on building your brand long term.

Elizabeth Presher  36:44

What do you think to be at that point in your business? You know, I think when I first started, especially in the marketing side of it, because, you know, in the boutique side of it, we had a lot of success being you know, being a mobile boutique, it was fun, it was different. We got a lot of press, and then when I switched to marketing, like.

Michael Maher  37:02

And that was novel then, I mean, not a lot of people were doing mobile things like food trucks have become very popular. It was five years, but COVID I think push that even more so. 

Elizabeth Presher  37:10

Right. It was like we were the first in Dayton, there was one in Cincinnati. So like, we got a lot of excitement. And then I started a marketing agency because I thought I had this unique and I do I still think I bring something unique being a boutique owner. But like newsflash, unfortunately, there are a lot of agencies out there. And so you know, when we first started, it was like, you want to work for me, and you have, you're about to go out of business. I'm gonna save you, I'm gonna save you. And now I realize, 

Michael Maher  37:35

Yeah.

Elizabeth Presher  37:36

that doesn't work. And you know, or we have agent, we have people that come to us, and they're like, I have worked with 17 agencies, and they just didn't get it done. And I'm like, I'll get it done. And now I'm like, nope, like,

Michael Maher  37:48

Yeah.

Elizabeth Presher  37:49

they weren't the problem. Like now we know that *inaudible*

Michael Maher  37:50

There's so many variables. 

Elizabeth Presher  37:52

Right, right. And so, 

Michael Maher  37:53

Right, no one understands what I'm going for it? Well, what you're going for is impossible, 

Elizabeth Presher  37:58

Right.

Michael Maher  37:59

I've had people say we want to do $2 million in revenue and Amazon. Okay, well, what are you willing to do? Like, what is your your capabilities and adspend? Well, we're probably going to spend $500,000, and see what happens. And I end so I will stop people in a prospecting call. And say, you're and I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm being honest, you're expectations of what you can do sales wise with that budget are not aligned, you will not make that. So there's going to either need to be like, are you willing to say, we'll do less sales, and the target will be not as high? Or, hey, we can spend 30 grand a month to start on advertisements. And the person I'm thinking of a specific call, but it was like, Yeah, okay, well, like just get us a proposal. And we'll decide, no, I'm not, I'm not going to get your proposal I waited, you know, a week and said, Well, I'll follow up, you know, to see where we're at with things. And I waited, we can say, hey, just want to follow up, here's kind of where we left off. You're gonna either need to increase ad budget, or we're going to need to decrease the sales target. You know, are those possible, and the email back was just we're not going to do that this year or next year? No thanks. I was like, Okay, well, glad I didn't create a proposal, because you start to see the expectation, if expectations are malleable, and you come into it saying, we know that there's potential on Amazon, but we trust that you're going to be the ones to do it. That's going to be a great relationship. I don't care what your product is, unless it's a sucky product. But if that's the relationship, it's going to be good. But if someone comes in saying the past 17 agencies I work with just couldn't get the sales we wanted. Well, they didn't tell you that your sales goal is unrealistic for what you're asking for and that's why it didn't work out and maybe either no one told you that or they did and you didn't want to listen and so they didn't quote unquote, get your vision like that. The alignment of expectations is huge. And you're right. There are a lot of agencies a lot of agencies out there, some of them care about the quality work some care about the revenue only. And some may think to, you know, I was talking to someone and they I forget what they said, but they said something with the agency where I mean, it was just, there was a big disconnect and quality versus, you know, what have expectations and, and they said, you know, the reality is that agency owner, and I'm a Suzy sunshine, like I like to believe the best of people, I think there is some times where they, Yup.

Elizabeth Presher  40:01

want to give the best, like, you know, even with us, we do a lot of Facebook ads. And that's tricky, because there's so many variables and, you know, I will show clients, I don't even like case studies, because then like, there's so many variables that I can show you what, I can show you these amazing results. And I want everyone to experience these, like we use the same principles, but it doesn't always happen. And so I think there are some agency owners or agencies, you know, people out there that they want to do what they say they're going to do, they just like, again, there's that, you know, action disconnect. And so, you know, I think we fight that I'm sure you fight that all the time I we have people come to us we work with a lot of, you know. 

Michael Maher  41:00

I want to guarantee some people because I know they're going to be successful, but I can't know. 

Elizabeth Presher  41:05

Right, *inaudible*

Michael Maher  41:06

Even you could get me a sale but I won't.

Elizabeth Presher  41:08

Right. And I think there's like such, for me, especially and I don't think it is necessarily a woman thing. I think that it's a personality thing. But you know, I could be such a yes person. And I think you know, as I've gotten into this, and I think as they've gotten more of like that. Just an abundance mindset of like, you know, kind of what you're saying, when we meet with people, when I do consults, now, they are interviewing me, but I do want to interview them. And I want to say like, I want this to be a relationship where you feel like you can trust me, I want us to have fun on these calls, like fun isn't the goal, because I want you to make a lot of money. But I want this to be a relationship that's.

Michael Maher  41:48

That can be fun, making money can be fun. 

Elizabeth Presher  41:50

It's really fun, like we can celebrate, you know, but like I want it to be there are enough of my people out there that I can help and I can help them build a business and I can help them, you know, build their life the way they want to there are enough of those people. And I realized that now I used to think there were like three of them. And then like there's a lot out there. And so I think it's made me.

Michael Maher  42:12

Just getting to those people. 

Elizabeth Presher  42:13

Yeah. 

Michael Maher  42:14

It's getting to the prospects that don't see it, and then be saying, Hey, I noticed that finding a pattern. And notice that all the people I talked to were in this industry, or were that didn't fit with me or we're over here, maybe I'm going to focus more on this other industry.

Elizabeth Presher  42:27

Yeah, one thing to good clients to I mean, I'll say to clients, like I want 15 of you do you have friends that are just like you, you know, like, because especially in the boutique, it's very community, they're like, you have your boutique besties. And so I'm like, you know, we have a really good referral fee, send them my way, right? Not the bad ones, just, you know, not really, but the ones that you know.

Michael Maher  42:49

Yeah, we have an opposite referral fee, where if you send us a bad, you actually have to pay. 

Elizabeth Presher  42:54

Yes, that's a good idea.

Michael Maher  42:56

We will get into litigation with you. 

Elizabeth Presher  42:58

Right, here's the contract, it could go either way. But you're in control of that.

Michael Maher  43:04

It could go 15%, 20% either way, just you decide. 

Elizabeth Presher  43:08

It's actually, that is brilliant. 

Michael Maher  43:10

But I think if someone does have a good relationship with you, they're probably more likely to know, hey, I liked this person, I want to send them someone that's, that's good. And that's been one of the ways that we've built our agency. We built it based on referrals. But I've also done that with my team, too. I mean, I had people that were referring other people that have gotten on our team before I offer like a referral fee. But anyone that comes on now and you know, maybe they get a couple 100 bucks if someone stays for at least four months, because that's anyone that typically bails out and doesn't work out. It's like less than three months. So just want them to be a little bit longer than that. But they refer people because they don't want to crap where they eat. They like I like working here. I don't want to bring someone on that is gonna make my job harder. So I'm gonna bring someone on that I actually enjoy working with, even if they are a friend.

Elizabeth Presher  44:01

Yeah, I mean, and it's something that you feel confident in. And that is hard, right? Because I think sometimes we have friendships and we're like, I thought this person would be really good. And this didn't work out so well. And then sometimes you see, like, you know, I, I worked with a guy who did a great job, and it was pretty stressful job and it wasn't like the best fit for this family at the time. And my parents at the time were hiring a sales guy and I was like, go you should go work for my parents. Like, I think you do well, and he is, I think he just celebrated like his 15th year there and like it's really fun to see when that.

Michael Maher  44:34

Oh, wow. 

Elizabeth Presher  44:34

I still have not seen $1 from that referral, but.

Michael Maher  44:39

Oh sure. 

Elizabeth Presher  44:40

I do bother my dad about it sometimes. But you know, I think you know.

Michael Maher  44:45

By this dinner, I would really like you could buy this place.

Elizabeth Presher  44:48

Or thank you for raising me but I think you, he's not surprised that I have a running tally of what he owes me despite the fact raising me and putting me through school and all.

Michael Maher  44:59

Just raising and putting through school no big deal.

Elizabeth Presher  45:01

Right, but I'm the child that do that at Christmas, I was like is everybody's gifts even wait a second, I think you owe me an extra stocking stuffer. So *inaudible*

Michael Maher  45:12

You're the book keeper.

Elizabeth Presher  45:14

I am. I'm even stevens like, and I do with my kids, as a mom, it's maddening because you like spend $7 here and there, like, Oh, I gotta make it up there, it gets very expensive, because it just keeps going. But I digress. But I do think that referral, you know, really, it's relationships, like, it's relationships that, like, keep us, we've even found like growing through strategic partnerships and relationships, and building those relationships for reasons like we have really strong relationships with a few app companies that serve, we serve mutual clients, we don't do the exact same thing, we serve the same people. And what I love about it is not only can we serve the mutual clients, but I can get to know them, and I can get to know them well enough that we know the upcoming technology and we know the changes and we know the tricks and tips to really serve our clients well and invest in that on both sides. And it's, you know, paid off in a lot of ways, it's paid off in success for our clients, but it's paid off in growth for us. And those are always you know, it keeps you on your toes, I think to be sure, like, if I'm like, Oh, I don't feel like doing this today. I'm like, Oh, I owe it like to these people that have really invested in me too.

Michael Maher  46:26

Let's fix entrepreneurship and showing up and doing the things even if you don't want to do them. Elizabeth, I think we could talk for much longer so maybe there needs to be a part two, but if people want to find you where would they go, would they go to the site of a little league game and maybe veins popping out and yelling referees that are there to find you? They're gonna find you. 

Elizabeth Presher  46:48

Not anymore. 

Michael Maher  46:49

I mean, where can people go? To see you? Not anymore? Okay, whatever. But you know, maybe in your head.

Elizabeth Presher  46:54

I've cooled off and I'm just kidding. Then I go places with my *inaudible* but they're really not, keep it chill. Mama Bear is a tough it's a scary thing. Like mama bears are just, we're scary. But it's @Elizabeth_Presher on Instagram or our site is hitedigital.com/dayton is our mini-site. So you can also connect with me personally on Facebook and LinkedIn.

Michael Maher  47:29

And if you're listening, it's Presher as in P R E S H E R, not under pressure. Like the queen on David Bowie song. Everybody, retail continues to change that, I think, I mean, change is just inevitable anyway, but as retail changes and evolves and sometimes with bigger catalysts like the pandemic, and now retails comeback, at least according to shop talk. That's their slogan, the retail is back. And so, you know, just be on the lookout for things as they change. And don't expect things to stay the same and maybe even be willing to adapt more and quicker because that means you might actually get to the bag. So anyway, that's the end of the show. We don't have anything else for you. So get out of here. Thanks!