Consumer Inertia, Basic Needs, Brand Loyalty, & Toilet Paper

Variables are the theme that run throughout the converation with Veena Giridhar, the CEO of salesBeat, an AI-driven platform that helps brands generate better efficiency with their inventory. When a customer gets "cheesed off," as Veena diplomatically puts it, how does that affect the consumer journey? The factors that alter that journey are numerous but let's simplify this; the consumer may not be back to that store, hurting your chance at buidling brand equity with them. The journey is now even more complicated with the mixture of in store and online purchasing. Let's get into it.

Michael Maher  00:00

Hey everybody, this is The Longer Game. I'm your host, Michael Maher, The Longer Game is all about retail. So we talk about being Omni Channel and the future of retail and all the things that make retail fun, exciting, challenging. And today on the show, I have a special guest. Her name is Veena Giridhar and she is the CEO of salesBeat. And she'll get into the more technical side of things but they are an AI company that is focused on helping companies be more efficient in retail and CPG. If I'm going to drop another acronym, FMCG, and maybe she can even speak specifically about that. But welcome to the show Veena! 

Veena Giridhar  00:38

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Michael Maher  00:40

Tell us more about what salesBeat does.

Veena Giridhar  00:44

We, well, in simple terms we eliminate out of stocks and overstocking in stores. So it's all the stuff that you see these days, when you go into a supermarket where you see empty shelves, we help solve those issues and make sure that people find what they want when they want it. And they walk into a store. And from the supermarket side, we make sure that they don't overstock on certain products to meet that demand as well. 

Michael Maher  01:10

What do you think is a bigger problem for a company that retail is it understocking or overstocking?

Veena Giridhar  01:16

In terms of value, it's under stocking,  In terms of impact on everything else, it's overstocking. Because if you look at it, you, one spent a lot of money making a product, transporting it, transporting raw materials, getting it into the manufacturing line, make it massive carbon footprint, you transport it into the warehouse, and then you transport it again into your retail warehouse, put it in store. And then it's just sitting on shelf, taking up real estate.

Michael Maher  01:20

Okay. Yeah.

Veena Giridhar  01:53

People are buying it. So it's a lot of money that sort of keeps accumulating and then you end up having to write it off, writing it off or disposing of it because it's either expired, or they realize that people are not going to buy it. And typically, you'd be surprised to know that it goes into horse farms or into landfill.

Michael Maher  02:15

Horse farms, is that what you said?

Veena Giridhar  02:16

Yes, yes. So food and beverages basically go into horse farms or cat *inaudible*.

Michael Maher  02:20

Oh, okay okay, because it's just not getting used and the animals will eat anything. Is that where? 

Veena Giridhar  02:26

Pretty much yea, sadly, yes.

Michael Maher  02:28

Okay. Well, that's interesting. Good to know. I would say, when I think about stuff from an e-commerce perspective, and I'm this seems to be the same in retail, but if your products out of stock, and even more specifically, when I look at my area of expertise, Amazon, as soon as your product goes out of stock, it's not visible to people, there's no shelf space that sticks around, there's nothing that says this product was here or even out of stock, your product is just gone. And so when your product is gone from search, it's gone from visibility, people have no idea your product even exists. 

Veena Giridhar  03:03

Yes. 

Michael Maher  03:03

But even if something says out of stock on a store shelf, or like this should be here. I imagine someone may not have been paying attention to that as much they might see. Okay, the product I normally see I don't see the label anywhere. So I'm gonna have to get something else they're automatically making that decision in their head. But they're not even paying attention to an out-of-stock or anything like that. They just are not seeing the label. And they're going from there.

Veena Giridhar  03:26

Yeah, and um, for E-commerce, this is a lot worse to your point. Because in a retail store, you're in the store already. So that's a sunk cost in getting to the store. 

Michael Maher  03:39

Yeah.

Veena Giridhar  03:40

So the customer's not being to go, I'm going to leave the store and look for another store because I can't find my product, that person is going to look for alternatives, 

Michael Maher  03:50

Yeah.

Veena Giridhar  03:50

you can probably buy a different brand, which is terrible for the brand that needs to have its product in that store, 

Michael Maher  03:56

Right. 

Veena Giridhar  03:57

But on an overall level, the store is not as worse off, unless the consumer is as picky. And he or she probably says my brand has not yet I'm walking out and finding a different place. In commerce,

Michael Maher  04:11

No one's going to a store, they're likely to like especially a Target, a Kroger, and Walmart, they're not going there for just one item.

Veena Giridhar  04:18

Yeah exactly. 

Michael Maher  04:19

So even if they say, I'm not going to buy this item, they're still going to go on and buy other items, but very likely, they're there for a reason, especially if it's FMCG or fast-moving consumer goods. So anything that's consumable, or anything that's going to need to be bought on a regular basis. 

Veena Giridhar  04:34

Exactly.

Michael Maher  04:35

So they're going to need something, if they're at a peanut butter, let's say, and maybe their favorite brand it's not there, unless their kids like no way in hell am I going to eat this kind of peanut butter, they're probably going to buy an alternative which is why there are private labels or store brands inside of a store. It's options in case something goes out of stock or if they just want something that isn't even always necessarily cheaper but they want a different option. And then they got that option. But when it goes out of stock online, it's completely gone. And so if they're maybe just looking for one product and I say, okay, maybe I can come back, but inside of a retail store, it could be very easy to just pass on and say, Okay, well, my kids ended up liking this better, like you're giving an opening to another brand to take your customer. 

Veena Giridhar  05:21

Exactly, and it's, you took the example of peanut butter, which works, but another one, which is.

Michael Maher  05:28

I just eat it regularly. So I was trying,

Veena Giridhar  05:30

So do I, I love peanut butter.

Michael Maher  05:32

That were in my cupboards.

Veena Giridhar  05:34

But one area where this happens quite a lot is cleaning products, and laundry liquid, because if you think about it, very few consumers are as stuck on brands as unless there is this one fragrance of laundry liquid that you really like and, 

Michael Maher  05:51

True.

Veena Giridhar  05:51

cannot find it anywhere else, you're not likely to basically say I'm going to pass on the store, because they don't have my brand. And the fragrance that I liked the most in there, they're going to probably buy another cleaning product, which works as well, in a washing machine.

Michael Maher  06:10

When people are, oh go ahead,

Veena Giridhar  06:12

I was just about to say that with E-commerce, it's actually quite different. So what usually happens is, if you find that there are certain things that you are fixed on, and you're on the E-commerce website, and you don't find it, the inertia is not as smart. So you will just go, I can just as simply open another browser on my laptop and start looking for the products in a different store.

Michael Maher  06:35

*inaudible* store while you're in another store unless you're doing it on your phone.

Veena Giridhar  06:38

Yes, true. But it's still easy to open another app and go, I'm going to check if most of the, if nine out of 10 products are available on E-commerce site A versus six out of 10 on e-commerce site B, even if the six out of 10 are exactly what I'm looking for, versus the nine out of 10, which is more or less. But I've swapped out certain things, I probably go for the nine out of 10 on the e-commerce site.

Michael Maher  07:07

I mean, it's hard to be one of the things that we're seeing, and then even some of the brands that we're talking with that we help service on Amazon. And I would say people are conscious about just in general. I mean, the past 10-15 years, especially with the increase of the companies that are doing like a one-for-one model are very purpose driven companies like we want to, you know, decrease our carbon footprint, we want to, you know, Subaru will plant a tree every I don't know, every time something happens every time some event happens. And actually, there's a bourbon company called Angels envy. And they were doing something for that was with reforestation. So if you take a picture of their bottle, and you like on Instagram, and you hashtag it for the trees, something like that, they'll plant a tree every time you do that. So there's more, even people that are consuming alcohol or wanting to be more conscious with their dollars. 

Veena Giridhar  08:00

Yeah. 

Michael Maher  08:00

But I would say when you look at something like a laundry detergent, versus a beauty product, and or a food product, my guess is that people are like you said, they're going to be less loyal to the detergent, because, one, it's not something that they're putting in their body, even though there's something that's going on their body. 

Veena Giridhar  08:20

Yeah. 

Michael Maher  08:20

But it's also there's links, I think less prestige around. Oh, well, I use Downey Oh, well, I use tide, a lot of times people are making decisions. In that category. I again, I would guess, because I don't have data behind this. And you may, but people are making decisions also based on price, because we're getting into more of a commodity. Whereas even though food is technically a commodity, if someone wants something that's organic, or they have a specific diet, they're vegetarian, they're gluten free, they're eating things in a keto diet, they have specific things that they want to get. And they may have a brand where they say I only want this macronutrient profile, or I want this brand because I believe in what they're doing. And I would say even more so with beauty brands, if you have a facewash that works really really well for you. And you have acne prone skin, you can't just go and get your I would say you're less likely to just go and get another skin wash or another face wash because you don't know the efficacy of this product. And I think for women it's more important than it is for men, just from their buying perspective. I think men are becoming more informed in the beauty or that kind of consumables category like face wash or things like that. We're starting to see more men's grooming products come out. But women tend to be more discerning and they want this specific eyeliner or they want this specific thing. And so if I think about where you're sitting, if you're a beauty brand and an influencer is someone's coming to, you know Amazon or even your website from an influencer and they don't see that specific product. Like you said, the inertia is less they're like, Okay, well, I didn't invest it. I didn't drive here. So I can maybe wait another day or hey, send me an email when the product gets back in stock. But this is a product that I believe in, when you get some more like toilet paper. So like how, like, someone may say, Hey, I'm willing to like my brands, and I hear that I like to normally get, this is only single ply, my family is going to be mad at me for a week or so. But I'm going to get the product that's going to keep our butts clean, as opposed to just nothing at all. Whereas something that requires a different level of commitment to a brand is going to be a lot more difficult to replace.

Veena Giridhar  10:35

Oh, totally. And that's one sort of buying occasion. And then you have the different buying occasions where you sort of refer to it. And let's say there's a social media post that's going viral, the consumers in that shop looking for something or shoppers there, because of the post. And if they don't find that product, they're going to walk out of there. And they weren't there because they needed the product. So they probably forget about this in the next few days. But what happens with retailers, they did not capture that moment of a buying decision, because it wasn't in stock there. 

Michael Maher  11:12

Yeah.

Veena Giridhar  11:13

So that's just a sale lost, which they're not going to get back because no one's going to remember, a trending social media posts from two weeks ago and go, Oh, I actually went to the store to buy this product. And I'm going back there to buy it based on something I saw two weeks ago, never going to happen.

Michael Maher  11:31

Well, I think we live in a period of time where things are very easily attainable, or we haven't, I guess you could say in a somewhat on demand economy, where if this thing isn't available, then I need to find something else. Because like if my food that I normally get this meal, this restaurant close, I'm so hungry, I'm gonna go to another place. Or I would say even I had a bad experience. And so I'm gonna go and shift over to another place, if someone's going to an E-commerce site, and they just couldn't find the product. That's not as bad of an experience as Oh, this, this person that worked there was rude to me, and I don't want to see that person anymore. Maybe someone didn't respond to your message quickly enough. But that I would say, I don't know how I would be curious to know how much of an effect it does, you know, someone in store in person that in-person interaction where either they couldn't find their product, like, oh, man, I drove here. And that was one of the main things they came for. And it's not in here. How much of an adverse event is that compared to Oh, it wasn't on their website.

Veena Giridhar  12:43

We don't have the stats for the E-commerce website versus the store yet. What we do is that.

Michael Maher  12:50

Is that something that it's important you think for brands to know or is it, or are there other things that are higher up on that ladder that will make it have a bigger impact?

Veena Giridhar  13:02

So I think to your point, the fact that the customer has gone all the way to a store to buy something has a big impact.

Michael Maher  13:10

Yeah.

Veena Giridhar  13:10

And this actually impacted me in a different way. So for example, Statistics have shown that about 80% of consumers tend to switch stores, if they don't find what they want in a store.

Michael Maher  13:22

Ah okay.

Veena Giridhar  13:23

And that basically alludes to the whole, I've driven all the way across to this particular store to buy it or walked all the way across not found that and I'm feeling really cheesed off that it's not there. So I'm gonna,

Michael Maher  13:38

That's a nice way of putting it.

Veena Giridhar  13:40

to the next door, which does have it in stock, and buy it because they had it in stock when I needed it I'm going to start going into that store on a regular basis, if the experience is good, or comparable.

Michael Maher  13:55

So I had a gentleman on The Longer Game last season. It was Ron Thurston and he is very much a proponent of and I would say a student of In-store retail. And he has a book called Retail Pride. And it just talks about how the people that are working in store the front lines and how oftentimes and I've worked in retail before I've worked in Starbucks as a retail company, and there's often as you're a smaller part of a corporation, you don't feel as important as maybe someone that's your district manager, regional manager, and you know, they've got more stores and they've got more, a higher salary, things like that. But you're the face of the brand. And so if you go into a store, if you go into a local Target, I know there's a woman that recognizes my wife and has been helpful to her and my wife said, oh, yeah, that's my friend Mary or whatever, whatever her. Her name is. And I haven't had the interaction she would know. But she's like, oh, yeah, that's My friend away talking to her, whatever, that that can make a difference. I mean, I think if you're more of a Walmart or a Target person, if you'd like one of those setups better, it could also depend upon your life cycle, like when cash has been tighter for us as a family, we're probably going to shop at Walmart because you get a better deal for a lot, and we can get a lot of food. Whereas if you go to Whole Foods, you could spend 250 bucks and walk out with like, what did I spend $250 on it as and I'm not saying that you're not going to put maybe better quality food in but what do we really have long term data that shows the food I got at Whole Foods was better than for me than Walmart, that there's so many so much subjectivity, there's so many data points you would have to measure. And so at the end of the day, did my family get fed? And did they get fed for a longer period of time, if I can make, you know, 100 bucks last at Walmart longer than I can even target or some other place? Then I'm gonna go do that. And the dollar amount does end up mattering. But if someone has a good experience at Target or Starbucks, whatever the case might be, they're more inclined, I think, to go back there was if they have a bad experience, well, there's other options for coffee. And if you're not committed to the specific product, which like brand loyalty, how committed are you to that, I mean, I remember when I was working at different Starbucks, and I would go to different stores, people that certain stories, someone would say, Oh, this other person knows my order, like, I can't even be bothered to tell it to you, because it's already memorized me to have to tell it to you. I mean, this is me going into their psyche. But I've already like I've been here, you know, and they've, I mean, understandably, so they've gone there for three years, and you've got this new person that's coming in, who doesn't know you're Oh, this other person will tell you. And it's like, you could have just said it in that same amount of time. But there's a level of, of importance that you feel. And so it's those frontline people that make that impact. And so now, what to Ron's point, you can hurt or create brand loyalty based on that person that's in store. And so someone has a bad experience? In store, especially person to person? Yeah, that could be an adverse event that turns someone off to let's say, if you if you're at work at Nordstrom, and you're just having a bad day, and you're rude to someone, they might say, oh, people at Nordstroms are stuck up. Or they're rude, I don't want to shop here, I'm gonna go to Target or I'm gonna go somewhere where I feel like, I'm going to be more appreciated. Those kinds of interactions are, I think, something that's been left up to chance, up until now, like, Are there do? Or do you have data points for those kinds of things? Or is it more on the inventory in stock kind of situation that you're really gauging things right now? Because I feel like consumer behavior based on experience like that's, if we could quantify that better than I think there would hopefully be more likelihood that we can create a better experience or avoid negative experiences?

Veena Giridhar  18:08

Yeah, so we don't have exact data points on this. But because we've basically been measuring things purely from an availability and inventory perspective, and that's basically our focus. But what we have seen is that, where customers walk up, shoppers walk into a store, and they don't find something, they meet up with customer service, or they find someone at the store, who's nice to them, and is willing

Michael Maher  18:38

to matter how good of a day they've had, if someone's just regular to them, they don't go out of their way. They were so rude.

Veena Giridhar  18:44

Yeah, exactly. And if they had them either find the product, or are nice to them about not having that product in store. Shoppers are actually likely to come back even if for that particular occasion, they switch into a different store, they're likely to come back to this one, because they remember the good experience they had in the store. So it's just that one sale that they lose out on. But if they have an overall bad experience in terms of not finding it, customer service is not willing to help them or they're not able to find anyone to help them, then they just go away with a bad taste in their mouth and just never come back.

Michael Maher  19:20

How important are clean bathrooms? I'm just getting that just a personal thing. By going to a place on like, then I feel like there are places around town where I could say, oh, yeah, their bathrooms are always clean, or Oh, don't like their bathrooms are always dirty. But that's, that's more of a personal preference. Actually, one of the questions I was going to ask you is direct to consumer brands, I think in brands that have come out maybe in the past five to 10 years are maybe have the advantage of being a little bit more distinguishable because they're new. So like, if I think of TOMS Shoes, they're they're newer, they've got the one-to-one model. It's not a novelty anymore. But it's something that's, that's newer and maybe more part of the conversation. Whereas, you know, brands like Adidas, or converse, or even Nike, Nike, I think does a good job of getting your brand out there. But they're, they're more standard. I feel like it's like, okay, well, yeah, I've got these standard brands. And then I've got this subset of brands that are a little bit more or a little bit more unique. And they've got some what I would say, if I'm talking about an economic perspective, there's a little bit more scarcity to them, because they are newer, and there's less of them. So do you have any kind of information? Or what kind of advantages or disadvantages direct-to-consumer brands have, especially as they get into retail, versus a brand that's been on the shelf for, you know, 3040 50 years?

Veena Giridhar  21:01

Great question. So I'm going to sort of split that into a few different segments because there's so many less to sort of uncovered. Yeah, so

Michael Maher  21:11

I have a tendency of making things a little bit more complicated for me.

Veena Giridhar  21:16

I think it's just the nature of what we're discussing here, because it's not just one thing that influences our decision, it feels like it, but a lot of the time there's multiple

Michael Maher  21:28

factors. Yeah, it's because of this, then that there's a distinction that needs to be made between correlation and causation to

Veena Giridhar  21:37

Yeah, absolutely. And, let's just take so you took the example of shoes, and I think shoes, there's a bit more of a, of a choice element there and a little bit more of a, I like these shoes, because they make it a certain way, they fit a certain way and that sort of thing. So if we bring it on a level playing field and just go back to the laundry example. I like it because of how simple the product is, if it cleans where people buy it, yes, that is bland brand elements to it. That's one of the reasons why people buy certain brands versus others. But the basic need is it needs to clean well, okay, it makes it a simple product. So if we take that, we find that, to your point, direct-to-consumer brands, and it's less about them being direct to consumer and more about if they have values that add to the brand. Like for example you have method as a brand in the UK, I'm not sure if it's big in the US. And E covers another one. Both of these are sustainable laundry liquids, which are biodegradable, no unnecessary chemicals but clean as well. And what we found is that consumers are more willing to shop around for those particular brands versus any others

Michael Maher  22:56

they're willing to go and shop and find those brands versus Oh, Okay, interesting. Yeah, and how when how recently have those companies come out?

Veena Giridhar  23:07

They've been around for about five-six years maybe.

Michael Maher  23:10

It's still relatively new if you're looking at like detergents or,

Veena Giridhar  23:14

Yeah if we look at like an area, *inaudible* a surf yes they've been those guys have been around for a while these guys competitively.

Michael Maher  23:22

And they've arguably spent a lot more money in terms of cost of goods like production and marketing overall. And so how does it How does a How are you seeing looking at data that a bigger brand can be more relevant like is that competitive advantage there again, marketing is it saying well, we actually care about XYZ or is it the, when I think about like tied in there having Stone Cold Steve Austin and iced tea and all these like celebrities get on and say hey, switch to switch to you know, cold, and Gordon Ramsay is like, what the hell you talking about? Like, okay, yeah, we'll switch that's fine. Like, where's the dynamic competitive advantage? Can there be a brand excitement that goes beyond just the novelty of marketing? How did they How did those out of those bigger brands, now combat the newness and the shininess of a direct-to-consumer brand?

Veena Giridhar  24:28

I think they need to think about it in a different way. It's less about competing directly with a brand. They need to look at themselves and understand how best to appeal to their target consumer or target shopper. And it all goes back to brand basics. It's all about what are these people really looking for? Is my brand acid actually addressing that need if not, how can I make it address, they need to do whatever it is that can be done to address what’s needed? It sounds simple, but I'm sure there are a lot of layers that go into it and a lot of things that need to be done, but

Michael Maher  25:05

I think, these are the basics for a reason. There are, I think, in any space, especially something's new. I mean, in the Amazon space, there's such a need for brands to get up and running on Amazon and to be competent on there. And there's not enough service providers that are able to actually just do that, in general, or that even say that they do that. So there are lots of opportunities for someone to say, I can do that. And really, they can't. So that ends up hurting the brand in the long run. Because someone says, yeah, we can do this. But really, they can't. And then somewhat like my agency comes along. And we actually can, but now they've been burned by one, two, sometimes three different service providers that say, oh, yeah, we can do this. And they end up getting hurt. Because there's, there's still such a strong demand, but there aren't enough skilled or knowledgeable people to be able to help. And so the but the end, so someone might even be able to say, hey, we know, we know all the secrets. And we have all the best tips and the tricks to like get past something and to get you to grow your brand. But when I look at brands that are doing things well, on the Amazon marketplace, or even agencies that are doing it, well, it's doing the basics really well. Like when I think about strategy, like strategy on Amazon, it's really not that difficult. How you execute that strategy is a totally different story. But when you look at strategy, it's like, have good real estate, what is the listing look like? I mean, I've been thinking about it from like a physical house perspective. Are you staging your house? Like, are you staging your listing? Are you staging your product in a ways that appeals to people? And whatever your product is? Is it you know, is there an on trend component, like a lot of food brands are showing there? If they have, you know, banana, Nut Bread? Are they pairing it with bananas and nuts and like the actual ingredients that people get? A, they get a really quick sense of, okay, bananas, nuts, I get it. Like, it's not just having to read something like they can see those visuals and they can compute faster. So like the basics of the basics for a reason. Because they actually work and they help people. So I think it's you say it's easy. And it's, it's easily said, and it's simple, but maybe it's not so easy. It's simple in that what is your brand actually offer people? And are you telling that to them effectively, and then all the years of research and all the additional stuff that goes into that? That's what actually helps people to know, okay, this brain is always going to save me money, this brain is always going to get my keep my whites whiter, whatever the case might be. Yeah,

Veena Giridhar  27:57

Yeah, absolutely. And I think so for example, one of the brands that I really like, is the seventh generation. Well, Oh, yeah. Taking the example of isn't that basically is a large company brand that basically appeals to the consumer or the shopper.

Michael Maher  28:13

Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think but they're doing it in a way that's fresh, and it's new.

Veena Giridhar  28:19

Exactly. And it basically appeals to all the values that consumers or shoppers want to see in the brand that they're buying. And it's contemporary, it's new. And I think what has made it harder for these companies is they've had to basically go and launch a completely new brand that addresses these things, then revamp an existing brand to stand for the same things. And I think that the complexity here, because some of these brands have been around for so long, how do you actually turn them into something consumers would like and then what that smack of greenwashing brands don't really want to be doing that. So

Michael Maher  28:57

you're saying the bigger company brands, that's what I think they're like, Oh, we are what we are, let's just ride with that. But how much stickiness do you actually have with someone if someone's like, oh, well, I mean, I think there's a resurgence of, of small and even, like, if you look at like food brands, what's the most sustainable thing that you can do? I'm not even talking about from a dietary perspective, but the most sustainable thing that you could do is to eat locally. Yep. Anything that you do less footprint. And if you're actually supporting local producers, everything stays in like that is the is the most sustainable thing. And so I think there's a resurgence of local or even small, winning, but I mean, like some of the small brands, they might, you know, start out small, but they're now doing 50 $100 million. I think of a brand like I don't know, dude wipes. I think they're close to maybe 100 million or something like that, in terms of sales, and so I would consider them to be small compared to like a cotton now, but they're, they're pretty that's pretty big. I mean, 100 million. is not a small amount of money.

Veena Giridhar  30:01

No, not at all. And I think that's basically what makes things so difficult

Michael Maher  30:07

is the fact that we're dealing with a small to big like showdown? Is that what you're saying?

Veena Giridhar  30:20

I think they each have their own pace. Okay. They each have their own strengths. And I think so. If we look at what consumers want and how they're buying things, yes, you have a certain segment of consumers who want products that are core to their values. But you do see that now things are changing with inflation coming in, people are changing, there's more, right? Yeah. And you're buying a lot more of private label brands, where you have absolutely no idea where they've come from. It has no traceability of supply chain, and they don't stand for anything except low value of value for money. It's changing things. So I think brands need to really play on their strengths. And as long as they are relevant to shoppers and consumers. It's all about how do we stay relevant for those shoppers and consumers and give them value rather than chasing after this particular new customer? Who I may or may not get at a really high cost, in which case, profitability is impacted? How do you make sure you're available in stores? To the people who wanted it when they come in to buy it?

Michael Maher  31:42

I just looked up and I think dude, wipes did like 50 to 67 million, but it's still that's a lot of money. That's more money than I have, let's put it that way. Not that I'm like the pinnacle of wealth or anything like that. I think you hit on something that is just so core, to almost doing anything. Well, and it's do you know, the basics are what those like, what are your what are the actual, the roots of anything? And are you doing those basics? Well, when I think about, like, conflict resolution within my own team, or even at home, if my wife and I are having a disagreement about something, let's say we're just having a disagreement and not an argument. What's the core issue? Is it that I said it was the thing that I said? Or was it that, hey, I've just had a bad attitude all day, and I'm not being as nice as I need to be like, what's the core thing there? Because you can get caught up in a lot of the extra stuff, the flashy stuff? Well, you did this and you said this thing. I was like, Wait, have you eaten today? Oh, no, I haven't eaten lunch today. Okay, you're, you're really hungry. And maybe what I didn't help the situation. But if you had eaten or if I had eaten, I might be a nicer person, like, what's the what's at the core, if we don't handle the basics, like food, and clothing, and shelter, and all that stuff, everything else gets kind of thrown out of whack? So I think when it comes to consumer brands, in general, you have to know, what is it that you're actually providing people? Are you providing them with the feeling of having a good lifestyle? Are you providing them with value and then feeling good about the value that they're getting? Is it tied to a mission or a statement? Someone's saying I'm willing to spend two times more on this because I really believe in this mission. So knowing what your actual, what it is that you bring to the table, I hesitate sometimes to say value because that's such a sometimes it's an overused word. And like when I think about a service provider, I don't this is something there's a guy named Keegan, who wrote a book called when I'm blanking on the name of the book, and I haven't technically read the book, oh, gaff selling. But I saw him post on LinkedIn several years ago. And he talks about how service providers often say we're providing value. And that's actually not true. When you hire a service agency like mine, you're losing actually losing money, you're paying us to do a service. So we don't inject you know, 20 grand or 50 grand of capital into your business, what we actually help you do is uncover the inherent value that's already there. So I'm hesitant to say value but as a consumer brand, what is it that what are people's values? What is it that they ascribe to more is cost their value? Is it mission? Is that what their values are and knowing where you align on that spectrum? That is what ultimately helps you win as a consumer brand. There's a lot of different paths to get there. But the basics are the basics for reason.

Veena Giridhar  34:36

Yeah, absolutely. And I actually quite like the word value because value means different things to different people, okay. To some people value is a price thing. To others. It's more alignment with what they believe in, and what they think their brands believe in and what their brand stands for. It's a different sort of value that they get the other one doesn't do what it's supposed to do, which is a different sort of value that you derive from using the product. So I think if you look at it in different ways, and then try and align it with what the consumer or the shopper wants, then you get to a really good place about does the brand match what they're looking for. And that helps with shopper and consumer loyalty as well.

Michael Maher  35:24

And that means you may be either change your product or change your messaging, because you want to align with something, or maybe you realize, hey, we actually aligned with it, we think we thought we aligned with this, but we aligned with this. And we're gonna go towards the way that we actually are currently aligning

Veena Giridhar  35:37

it interesting one, I think you need to stay true to your shopper. And I've done some work with brand teams where we look at where we've looked at what the brands initially started off with as that core consumer group and how the brand evolved. And what we found was that as we went through generation, so going from the sort of baby boomers, to Gen X's to millennials, there's so many changing values through all these generations that you can't quite possibly hit all of them. And then what happens is, you start changing our brand, and a lot of the times it comes full circle. So if you look at millennials right now, and Gen Zed, they actually have very similar values to what baby boomers did, in terms of buying and consumption, just because of all the hardships they've seen over the last few years, all the changes COVID, you've now got the inflation, you've got the conflict in Ukraine. So all of these things are actually impacting how consumers buy things. And this is not something that's fixed. It evolves over time. And I think that's the one thing that brands need to be completely aware of. If they stand for a few values, they just need to make sure that it's aligned with consumers that they're targeting very well. So to stay fixed, they can't keep changing their minds, because then consumers will be confused.

Michael Maher  37:04

And if consumers are evolving, and you're evolving away from them, then it's just too much too much evolution. Like you can evolve maybe how you're trans, how you're transmitting that message, but the message should core should still be the same. Yeah, exactly. Vina. If people want to find you, where if they wanted to connect with you, wherever they are, they look would you be like hiding in a target, peering around the corner watching someone what they're doing, or you're just allowing the machinery to do that. Now you're, you're on the programming side, right? We allow the data to do that. You allow that you don't have to actually be in the store to do that. Yeah. But if someone wanted to connect with you, where would they reach out to you at?

Veena Giridhar  37:43

LinkedIn? Oh, my email? veena@salesbeat.co

Michael Maher  37:47

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I've enjoyed the conversation I feel like there's always a deeper conversation that could be had. But people that's the future of retail. Retail is omni channel, it's complex, there's a lot of different components that are playing into it. And it's ever-changing and yet the basics still stay the same. So if there's a lesson to anyone out there brands or even just humans, humans, I don't know what humans are, but humans just stay true to what your core values are and be clear and honest with yourself about what those are if something's important to you, be honest that this is important to you price is important to you. That's okay. It doesn't have to be all about the most premium good but just recognize that and be true to that so Alright, that's it that's the end of the show everyone have a good rest of your day and or don't have a good rest of your day. I don't know,  I'm not going to tell you what to do. And but yeah, stay true to who you are.